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EA首席创意官Rich Hilleman谈论游戏设计(2)

发布时间:2013-11-15 10:17:07 Tags:,,,,

EL:你认为现代游戏设计师所面临的最大挑战是什么?

RH:我不认为这些挑战发生了多大改变。设计师们还是面临着同样的问题。从根本上看来,玩家想要知道怎样才可以不用为游戏花钱。在过去,各种盗版行为成就了玩家的这种想法。

我认为在某些方面,我们程式化了这种情况。免费模式真的是这种过程的一种格式。这便意味着让消费者付钱仍旧是最困难的事。

过去在艺电的执行制作人培训中我曾说过:“电子游戏中最复杂的工作是什么?”制作人便会起身回答:“制作人的工作”;工程师会说是“工程师的工作”;而设计师也会说是“设计师的工作。”我想说这问题很简单呀,所以我便对大家说“给我5块钱”,或“给我60块钱”。

我绕着房间走了一圈,但却没人愿意给我60块钱。所以答案便是,“我想我们已经明确了现在电子游戏中最复杂的工作:让某人给你60块钱。”

面对着各种组织,我认为一家公司如何成功完成自己的工作都是有意识或潜意识地围绕着得到报酬的过程。如果作为设计师的你认为可以在未来忽视自己如何得到报酬的过程,那么围绕着这一想法去调整自己的设计努力才更加重要。

对于曾经设计过的第一件产品,我在设计中所做的第一件事便是描述我需要六张截图呈现在包装背面,因为这是消费者决定是否购买我们的游戏的一大重要元素:这两张截图以及它们所传达的内容。

25年前,我决定围绕着最难完成的任务,即付费,去创造自己的产品。我认为这是再合适不过了。如果你是一名设计师,并认为自己应该避免这一问题,我想你将不可能长久地承担一份工作。

另一方面,那些理解它并清楚你是如何通过A/B测试去获取更高收益的人将发挥更大的作用,甚至是会被当成制作人一般的存在,即使事实上他们并不是。(笑)

Rich Hilleman(from pcgamer)

Rich Hilleman(from pcgamer)

EL:关于今天的游戏设计最让你惊喜的是什么?

RH:你应该听过我之前所开的一个玩笑,即嘲笑自己有多老。我已经很老了并在这个业务中待了很长一段时间,但是关于我们是否能够成为一种受法律保护的艺术形式却仍是不确定的事。这是个让人困扰的问题。

当回首过去,我们会发现自己基于各种方式经历着文化上的变革。其中一种方式便是越来越多人开始玩游戏了。他们只是这么做着,这并不是潜意识的行为,他们也并未真正在乎这种行为。

这并不代表他们想要变成那些一天待在房间里20个小时吃着立体脆(游戏邦注:百事的一款食品),甚至都懒得去上厕所的14岁青少年。但的确是越来越多人接受了游戏。这是第一点。

第二点,越来越多社会上的其它部分开始着眼于从游戏中寻找解决问题的方法。而对此我感到了稍许的焦虑,因为这是他们在看到我们之前很长一段时间所拥有的问题。这让我开始担心我们不能真正解决他们的问题。我不认为我们能够独立解决教育系统的问题。我不认为我们可以独立解决企业教育问题。

但是我们是否能让事情变得更好?当然。不过我们也并非灵丹妙药。并不可能治愈癌症。

但看到现在的人们将我们当成是一种解决方法而不再是问题,心里也确实舒坦多了。而需要明确的另外一个事实便是,现在你可以更轻松地触及更多用户了。

之前在我参加PAX East游戏展时,有个人对我说道:“我是计算机科学编程专业的大三学生。我非常喜欢游戏。我该如何做才能让人们注意到我呢?”我问他:“你制作了多少游戏了?”他的回答是:“一款都没有。”我说:“那你就先制作一款游戏。没有什么比一个人想要创造游戏来得美妙了。只要你有这一想法就不会有什么能够难倒你。在今天你可没有理由不去制作游戏了。我想你能找到的唯一借口便是你不愿进行尝试。”

现在与7年前不一样了,那时候的你即使不能创造一款AAA级主机游戏也没关系。现在你拥有手机,网页,下载和免费模式等等方法。你还能创造社交游戏。所有的这些产品领域的准入门槛几乎为零,5000美元和一定的关注度都能让你成为这些业务中的佼佼者。

这种情况一直在上演。就像《Realm of the Mad God》便是由两个人独立创造出来的游戏。尽管他们都非常优秀,但是仅凭两个人之力真的很厉害。

我们大多数最优秀的手机产品都是由一个人所完成的。在今天你可以做各种尝试。除非你不想做。

如今同时发生了两件事。第一件事便是我们基本上拥有了完整的二代游戏玩家。这些人是伴随着玩家父母而长大。而现在的他们也开始思考制作自己的游戏。他们将采取我们可能不理解的方法进行创造。我认为如此低的准入障碍以及如此庞大的潜在游戏创造者的结合意味着游戏产业的发展将越来越明朗。

不管怎样,只要你真正喜欢游戏,这便是个很好的时机。

EL:我还记得我们家买的第一台家庭计算机,它是售价3000美元的Apple LC II。

RH:哇。

EL:那时候我便可以使用HyperCard去创造自己的第一款游戏了。而在今天,只要花200美元你便能够得到一台足够强大的计算机,并免费使用各种软件将一款游戏免费呈现在数百万人手中。

RH:在短短的六周时间里,你将从没有电脑,什么都没有摇身变成拥有一款2万多人在体验的游戏创造者。这在今天是绝对有可能的事。

换做在1984年,这是人们不可能想到的情况。谁会相信会出现大批玩家去玩游戏,更别说我能快速地触及这些玩家。

这不再是一个关于6502条装配线的问题。我的意思是你可以轻松利用Simple Basic完成许多任务,这是来自微软的一款免费软件,能够帮助你创造出8位体质量的投币式风格电子游戏。

基于该技术所创造出来的游戏还有很多。再一次地,这也不是限制你创造出优秀游戏的阻碍。只有你自己才是影响自己能否创造出优秀游戏的真正元素。

EL:这才是你的真正动机。

RH:没错。我有自己的小孩,而他们最不想听到我说的便是关于生活中有80%是关于2件事:40%是作准备,而40%是完成。中间的20%并不是什么大事,但却是所有人投入最多时间在做的。

我们都知道这点。你应该遇到过一些才能平平之人不断咬牙坚持着,希望能完成你所不看好的一些事。你也有可能遇到过一些从未真正完成某些事的聪明人。这两种情况是完全不同的。在如今的时代里,拥有这些特征的人是没有理由不会去表达自己的。我认为这具有很大的差别。

所以我真心希望他们能够创造出一些优秀的游戏(笑)。我也相信来自中国,东欧,南美,甚至是东亚/印度等国家的人所创造的不同形式的游戏也会非常有趣。日本,美国和英国论坛也正是如此演变成为世界性论坛的。

如果是在5年前,你是否能够说出来自这三个国家的游戏设计师的名字?

EL:并不能。

RH:是的,即使能也只有少数几个。也许还有一两个来自法国。

EL:没错。我想到了育碧的成员。

RH:让我吃惊的是,直到5年前,德国仍是一个每年拥有10亿收入且没有任何本土游戏设计人才的市场(除了一些基于殖民者风格的迂腐的桌面游戏)。该市场中的一切别人的内容都是由外国人所创造的。如此看来他们并不能支撑自身国家游戏的发展。意大利也是如此。这些国家虽然拥有较深的文化底蕴,但却不能创造出属于自己的本土论坛。不过现在他们都做到了这点。

EL:所以全世界市场关于游戏发行渠道所使用的方法……

RH:这里有许多不同的经济模式。

EL:没错。是否在今天使用免费游戏模式与在80年代末/90年代初使用自动投币模式是一样的?这种类比是否有意义?

RH:我认为这更加接近于1981年或1982年前的计算机游戏。我会说大多数发行于1982年前的计算机游戏都是通过复制从一个人手中传到另一个人手中。我觉得这与80年代的重金属磁带无异。地下重金属摇滚乐的传播的主要机制便是一个人用磁带录下另一个人磁带上的音乐。

我认为这便是免费游戏所做的,它抚平了传播系统中的所有摩擦。而现在存在的问题是,你该如何从潜在的亚文化中获取盈利?我听过一个笑话是,在1986年或那段时间,你可以购买三张金属乐队的唱片和一件T恤,这便是那时可出售的商品的总和。显然,在今天这些商品的管理变得更加完善了。它们已经找到各种不同的方式让消费者掏腰包了。

我认为接下来免费游戏要做的便是创造其它能让消费者花钱的方式。我认为《愤怒的小鸟》获得利益的各种渠道还未真正与现今电子游戏挂上钩。实际上,我认为今天电子游戏的主要收益来源还是授权。

EL:是的,我甚至在加州博览会上看到《愤怒的小鸟》的赠送玩具出现在米老鼠的旁边。

RH:这是一个受利益所驱动的领域。我们已经陷入了这种文化中。

本文为游戏邦/gamerboom.com编译,拒绝任何不保留版权的转载,如需转载请联系:游戏邦

On Game Design with Rich Hilleman (Part 2)

EL: What do you think is the biggest challenge faced by modern game designers?

RH: I don’t think it’s changed much. It’s the same problem. Ultimately, players would like to figure out how not to pay for games. In the past, that was expressed through various kinds of piracy which was occasionally even humorous in its activity.

I think in some ways we have ritualized that. Free-to-play is really a ritualization of that process. That means that getting paid by the customer continues to be the hardest thing.

I used to do this bit in EPX [executive producer training at EA] where I said, “What’s the hardest job in video games?” And the producer would get up and say, “The producer.” The engineer would get up and say, “The engineer.” The designer would get up and say, “The designer.” I’d say it’s pretty simple. I’d say “Give me five bucks.” Or, “Give me 60 bucks.”

I’d walk around the room. Nobody would give me $60, right? Nobody will. So the answer is, “I think we’ve established right now what the hardest job in video games is: getting somebody to give you 60 bucks.”

So much of the organization I think of how successful companies do their job is either consciously or subconsciously organized around the process of getting paid. And if you as a designer think you can ignore how you get paid in the future, it is more important—not less—that you align your design efforts around it.

The very first product I ever designed, the first thing I did in the design was to describe that I needed six screenshots to fit on the back of the package because that was the single most important component of my customers’ decision about whether to buy my game versus another: those six screenshots and what they told them.

Twenty-five-plus years ago I decided that I’m going to build my product around the most difficult thing to accomplish: getting paid. I think that is more true than ever, not less true, more true. If you are a designer and think you’re going to avoid worrying about that problem, you will not have a job very long in my opinion.

On the other hand, those who understand it and have great command of how you do A/B tests to produce better financial outcomes, they’re going to drive the bus more and more every day and they might even get called producer even when they’re not. [laughs]

EL: What excites you most about game design today?

RH: You’ve heard my joke before about how I’m officially old. I’m old enough to have been in this business long enough that whether or not we would be a legally protected art form was by no means certain. It was very much in question.

That’s a day that’s now gone into the past and we have gone through a cultural shift in our acceptance in lots of ways. One of them is that more and more people play games than have ever played before. They just do and they’re not subconscious about it and they don’t care about it.

It doesn’t mean they want to be a 14-year-old eating Doritos for 20 hours in their living room and peeing their pants. That’s not who they want to be. But there’s more and more acceptance of playing games, number one.

Number two, there are more and more other parts of society that are, interestingly enough, looking to games to solve their problems. Some of that I worry about, because these are problems they’ve had for a long time before they came to see us. There’s a certain tinge of desperation to that that makes me worry that we can’t actually solve their problems. I don’t think we can solve the education system’s problems singlehandedly. I don’t think we can solve the corporate education problem singlehandedly.

Can we make things better? Yes. We are not a panacea. We will not going to cure cancer.

But it is nice that people see us now as a solution occasionally rather than just a problem. I think the other thing that’s true is the number of people that you can reach and how easy it is to reach those people.

I was at PAX East and one of the people that talked to me afterwards said, “I’m in the junior year of my computer science program. I love games. How do I get people to notice me?” I said, “How many games did you make?” And the answer was, “None.” I said, “How about you make one?” I said, “There’s no time better in the universe to be somebody who wants to make games. It has never been easier. There are more ways. There is no reason that you can’t make a game today. The only reason you won’t make a game today is because you won’t try.”

This is not seven years ago where if you didn’t make a triple-A console game, you were nowhere. You have mobile, you have the web, you have download, and you have free-to-play models all over the planet. You have social networking games. Almost all of these products’ spaces have virtually zero barriers to entry, where $5000 and some attention can make you a commercial player in any of those businesses.

And we see it all the time. Two guys do Realm of the Mad God. Okay, they’re two good guys but they’re two guys.

Most of our best mobile products have been really built by one person. You can do things today. The only reason you don’t is because you choose not to.

There are two things going on at the same time. Number one is we have essentially the entire second generation of game players now. These are people who grew up in households with parents who were gamers. And those people now are thinking about making games. Thank God I’m almost done because they’ve been living it. They’re going to have it organically in a way that I don’t even maybe understand. I think that the combination of barriers to entry being so low and the population of potential game makers being so large means that things should never have been brighter than right now.

Might be tough for EA, but overall if you like games, it’s a great time.

EL: I remember when my parents bought our first family computer, it was like an Apple LC II for $3000.

RH: Wow.

EL: And I was able to use HyperCard to make my first game. That’s probably a $5000 to $6000 computer today. And the thing is that for $200, you could get a computer that is powerful enough and use free software to get a game into the hands of millions of people for free.

RH: Literally in six weeks, you could go from no computer, nothing, to having something that 20,000 people played last night. That is possible today.

In 1984, that was unfathomable. It’s inconceivable that not only a large number of people would show up to play, period, at all but that I could also reach them that quickly. Not only that, but the accessibility of the technology to reach them.

It is not a 6502 assembly line problem anymore. It really isn’t. I mean, you can get a lot done with Simple Basic for God’s sake, which is essentially a free piece of software from Microsoft that produces generally 8-bit-quality-plus coin-op style videogames.

There are a lot of great games that were made in that technology. Again, that’s not a limitation from your ability to make great games. You are the limitation for your ability to make great games.

EL: It’s your own motivation really.

RH: That’s right. I got kids and my parental direction that they’re tired of hearing from me is that life is 80% about two things: 40% is showing up prepared, and 40% is finishing. The middle 20% is actually not that big a deal, but that’s what everybody spends their time on. [laughs]

You and I both know this. You’ve seen people of mediocre talent who are fricking doggedly persistent that accomplish things in life you just can’t believe. And brilliant people who never finish anything that drive you crazy. That’s really the difference. What’s so great about this era is that for people who have those characteristics, they’re literally is no reason they can’t express them anymore. And I think that’s a big difference.

So hopefully they make some good games [laughs]. I also do think that there are things like the Chinese, Eastern European, South American, and even East Asian/Indian subcontinent markets and the distinct gaming forms they are creating that I think are equally interesting. It’s making what was really a pretty fundamentally Japanese, American, and English forum into a world forum.

Literally, up until five years ago, could you name a game designer that didn’t reside in one of those three places?

EL: No.

RH: Pretty short list. Maybe one or two in France.

EL: Right. When I think about it: the Ubisoft guys.

RH: The thing that was surprising was, as late as five years ago, Germany was a $1 billion a year or so market with no native game design talent at all except these highly specific, ultra-pedantic board games that are essentially based on Settlers [of Catan] style systems. Everything else in that market was foreign-made. There’s just no kind of precedence for that. That seems unsustainable. Same thing with Italy. These are countries that have deep cultural roots. It’s inconceivable to me that they wouldn’t generate their own native forums, but they didn’t. But I bet they are now.

EL: So just between global reach to ease of access to computing to distribution—

RH: Lots of different economic models.

EL: Right. Does operating a free-to-play game today mirror or is it similar to operating a coin-op business in the late 80s/early 90s? Is that a meaningful analogy?

RH: I think it’s almost closer to computer games pre-1981 or ’82. I would say the majority of computer games that were distributed before 1982 were distributed from one person to another by being copied. I would say that that’s the equivalent of heavy metal tapes from the ‘80s. The primary mechanism of underground heavy metal distribution was one guy taping another guy’s tape.

I think that that’s what free-to-play has done, is it’s taken all of the friction out of the distribution system, all of it. Now the question is, how do you monetize the underlying subculture that gets created underneath it? The joke was, in 1986 or something like that, you could buy three Metallica records and one T-Shirt, and that was the entire sum of commercial products that were available. Clearly, their management runs them a little better nowadays. They’ve found lots of other ways for people to give them money.

I think that’s what free-to-play is going to do is generate other ways for people to pay them money. I think the Angry Birds guys are getting paid a lot of ways that have nothing to do with video games nowadays. In fact, I would bet their predominant source of economics right now is licensing.

EL: Yeah, when I started seeing Angry Birds at the California State Fair as a giveaway toy next to Mickey Mouse—

RH: That are in the penny-pitching place. Yeah, exactly. We’ve fallen into the culture.(source:famousaspect)


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