作者：Ethan Levy

照例，首先我也要问你什么是游戏设计？

Andrew Mayer：好的。你总共有多少问题？因为……（笑）

有8个左右吧。

Andrew Mayer：好的。对于我来说，我总是会用“巧妙的挫折”这一短语进行描述。游戏设计是关于适当拉开你和用户间的距离。

所以当你与那些非传统意义上的游戏人合作时，他们总是想要坚持用户和游戏间的关系。并简化内容。这是一个合理的本能，但是最终如果将其简化到玩家能够随时获得自己想要的一切内容时，这便不是游戏了。

游戏设计也是如此。我所说的巧妙的挫折是指你希望游戏足够有趣，并且不会让玩家因为感到挫折而不再玩游戏。这是一个良好的标准。

我们还可以谈论更多细节内容。但是我认为如果你正在寻找适合每一款游戏的万能“药水”，那这便是你要找的。你可以创造任何可以轻松体验的游戏，或者你可以让玩家轻松地战胜游戏。计算机便可以做到这两点。

所以你需要平衡这两个内容，并创造出可以放置其它行为的平台，我认为这便是一种有效的方式。

你似乎一直坚持着呈献给玩家具有合理复杂度的挑战，而合理的复杂度便是我们所谓的有趣的情感。

Andrew Mayer：也就是挑战和机遇。你不能只是呈献给玩家挑战。回顾《马里奥2》和《Yoshi’s Island 3D》那个时代，你便会发现宫本茂先生便在这方面做得很好。他总是能够有效地平衡这两个元素，就像“这真的很困难。的确这非常疯狂。但是我将会经历这一过程，并且当我到达另一边之时一定会发现其中的价值所在。”

他真的很擅长做到这点。他知道提供浏览路径记录去告诉玩家，如果他们能够继续前进便会发现一些真正有价值的内容。

所以将挑战和机遇捆绑在一起？

Andrew Mayer：或者假装挑战后面就藏着机遇。我认为我们可以采用无数种方法做到这点。但是我们也必须想办法让玩家清楚这么做的原因，或者他们付出努力后能够换来哪些价值。

所以游戏设计师扮演着怎样的角色？

Andrew Mayer：最近吗？那就是遵循着一些指标去创造出更出色的游戏。

这主要包含两个阶段。首先便是游戏开发阶段，即创造一个平台去管理用户，并让他们开始理解游戏模式。

其次，当他们进入游戏中时，设计师的工作便是着眼于各种参数并想办法根据这些参数进行优化。我的意思是，可能因为游戏听起来并不吸引人，从而导致玩家并不愿意尝试它。但是我认为对于游戏设计师来说，这便是我一直在寻找的做法。基于社交上。

通常这也是玩家所提倡的。我认为我们在这点上便做得很好，不管他们是否能够意识到。但是我认为随着受参数驱动的社交游戏的出现，这变成一份更加机械化的工作。需要更多定义。

并不是说他们的重要性不值得进行衡量，事实恰恰想法。但是在某种程度上你却不能像美术人员那样说着“我是硬核游戏玩家的拥护者”这样的话。就像John Romero（游戏邦注：电子游戏领域著名的制作人，和卡马克在1991年共同创立了idSoftware）或Cliffy B便可能会说道：“我代表着这些人，这是我的部落，如果我能做到这点，他们便会拥戴我。”

我认为这等于剥去了这份工作所具有的浪漫主义。

Andrew Mayer：这是一些实用的知识。

我认为比起其它元素，游戏产业在这个产业中具有更多浪漫主义。

Andrew Mayer：并且比起其它产业来说，更多人在这里产生了幻灭感。

成为一名游戏设计师需要经历两个阶段。首先他们需要非常想要做这件事。然后当你已经开始落实行动时也必须愿意继续做下去。

这是两件完全不同的事。起初你想到的是自己想要做一件很棒的事。然后当你了解这件事时，你便会想：“我是否真的想要这么做？我能从中获得什么？”

是否存在某一特定时刻会让你对自己的职业产生这样的想法？就像“现在我知道游戏设计是……”

Andrew Mayer：我仍然会时不时敲敲自己的脑袋。

不过这对我来说还太早了。在创造《Twin Dolphin》时，我是作为联合制作人进入该团队，这也是我所参与创造的第一款游戏。很快地，我便发现项目制作人会一整天将自己关在办公室里玩电子游戏，从而导致工程师们不断开始反感。

而我的工作便是创造一张地图，我需要在一张万×1万的方形地图上铺设砖块。如此算来我便需要铺设1亿个砖块。

即使我每天每秒都在做着这份工作，即每秒铺设一个砖块，并假设不会出现任何差错，我也不可能在游戏发行前完成这项工作。但是当我找到制作人并告诉他这件事时，他却只让我闭嘴。

我便因此大开眼界了。我想这便是每个人离开自己第一份工作的理由吧？不管你的第一份工作是什么，你都会出现自己真正想要的什么，以及自己这么做是为了什么等想法。然后当你尝试着去找寻答案时，你会意识到这一点用处都没有。

然后当你开始寻找自己的第二份工作时，你便会带着完全不同的态度。你可能会说，我不会再做这样的事了。我将寻找份能够让自己的辛苦付出有所回报的工作。

这是否有意义？这听起来是否真实？

这听起来很有道理。

Andrew Mayer：我们都有点天真不是吗？我们都因为最初的尝试而伤痕累累，之后我们便会基于此去做出其它决定。

作为创意总监你所面临的最大挑战是什么？

Andrew Mayer：对于现在的我来说，面对一个我并不熟悉，或者不是很喜欢的类型便是一个巨大的挑战。我一直在想办法喜欢它。并明确如何划分游戏动态。

我将告诉你这是什么。我们必须质疑每一个假设。在过去你可以做出某些可靠的假设，但是现在，基于某些参数，你也需要对每个假设提出疑问。就像是你脚下的土地一直在发生着改变似得。这可能会让你感到不安。因为只要任何一点内容出现差错，所有的一切便会都错掉。

对于我们这些长期致力于这项工作的人来说，在过去，我们总是会获得相关信息，并能够尝试着分析这些信息而明确发生了什么情况。

而今天，如果你看到一个数字，你便会说：“噢，如果我这么做，我便会多获得5%的用户。”

5%算是一个很大的数目了。

Andrew Mayer：是的。你并不需要去分析这些假设，你只需要不断进行尝试，直到它不再发挥作用，然而再执行其它假设。

这便是现在与过去的区别。当你正在创造一个更大的图像时，你便不需要再创造更大的图像了。

作为游戏设计师与作为创意总监有何区别？他们分别扮演着怎样不同的角色？

Andrew Mayer：因为我需要负责项目的整体方向和愿景，以及一些更大的图像。所以从我的经验来看，创意总监便是负责前提和愿景。我们正在创造什么，它将如何发展，为什么我们要超该目标前进等等？同样的我还必须回答“我们该如何实现那一目标？”特别是关于一些全新的理念。

而游戏设计师的工作便是进行分解并创造游戏体验。这给如何运行？我的工作更倾向于我们将做些什么？为什么？而设计师的工作则是我们该如何做到这点？

在谈论等式中的不同元素时，你已经提到大量投资者，首席执行官，工程师，参数，市场营销和用户。

Andrew Mayer：还有美术人员。

对，甚至还有QA。需要如何定义愿景才算是创造一个愿景？需要与其他人一起付出多少努力才能实现该愿景？

Andrew Mayer：前阶段付出10%，后阶段付出90%。这是一种通力合作。并不存在捷径。我在早期所学到的便是，对于每一款游戏你必须先想出一个有效的理念，不管你是一名设计师还是创意总监，或者其他角色。

然后你的目标便是尽力去发展该理念，尝试着将优秀的理念整合在一起，直到游戏最终发行。你拥有一个优秀的理念，随后一切内容都会围绕着该理念发生改变。如果该理念能够存活下来，你便完成了自己的工作。

这便是关于“游戏的前提是什么？我们在创造什么？”所有的事物都将围绕着这些内容发展并改变。并且即使是在游戏发行后也会出现相关改变。

作为创意总监，最让你兴奋的事是什么？

Andrew Mayer：对于我来说，将现实世界与数字世界整合在一起便是件很棒的事。我们现在所做的便是如此。所以我认为我们其实也正在吸取着各种秘方。并且做着其他人未曾做过的事。

这点对我来说真的很有吸引力。现实世界和虚拟世界之间的墙壁开始倒塌。当你看到iPad和其它触屏设备这类型事物时，我们其实正在一个数字领域中重新绘制着现实世界。我认为这对于我们的游戏方式将产生巨大的影响。虽然我仍然很担心计算机会变成平板电脑。不过我想我们将很快便会超越这一水平，即到达一个设备和计算机之间不存在实际差别的领域。

我们将基于一种基本方式用数字技术去感染世界。就像将电力和自来水结构等通过电缆等介质整合到我们的生活中。我们将推动这个世界的数字化。

相反地，作为创意总监有什么是让你沮丧的？

Andrew Mayer：我认为这只是一种纯粹的妥协。所有的内容都需要通过参数进行过滤。并不存在正确的标准，并且实验也是非常有限的。我只能基于某种方式进行实验，即将目标作为一种参数。这便是让我很沮丧的情况。在这里根本说不了大话。我们不可能像Don Draper那样大声说出：“我做这些事已经20年了，所以我知道自己在做些什么。”

在你做各种尝试前，你都需要好好检查自己的数字及其准确性。

我想随着你的事业的发展，你会发现坚持正确变得不再重要。或者说，如果你可以放掉这种坚持，你便可以进行一些更公开的对话。

Andrew Mayer：我同意这一说法。如果这能发挥作用的话真的很棒。但问题就在于……

我们很难做到这点。

Andrew Mayer：我们不仅很难做到足够开放，同时也很难保持耐性。因为有时候你只是希望做好某些事。

（本文为游戏邦/gamerboom.com编译，拒绝任何不保留版权的转载，如需转载请联系：游戏邦）

“What is Game Design?” with Andrew Mayer

So the question I start everybody out with is, what is game design?

Andrew Mayer: Okay. How many more questions do you have? Because, uh, [laughs]

There are eight more.

Andrew Mayer: All right. All right. I think for me, the phrase I always use is “artful frustration.” Game design is about properly placing distance between yourself and the audience.

So, when you work with people who aren’t game people traditionally, they want to start pushing back this relationship between the audience and the game. And simplifying stuff. That’s a good instinct but, ultimately, if you simplify it to where the player can get everything they want whenever they want, there isn’t a game there.

And that’s what game design is really. Artful frustration, by which I mean, you want to make it so that it’s fun and it’s pleasant but not so frustrating that players don’t play the game anymore. And that’s always a good rule of thumb.

For me, I think there are more specifics we can talk about. But I think if you’re looking for the universal solvent of every game, this is it. You can make every game impossibly difficult to play or you can make games like pathetically easy to win. The computer can do either.

So, balancing those two things out and creating a platform on which other behaviors can be layered, that to me is the way I think it works.

Riding that fine line where you’re presenting players challenges that are the right level of complexity, the right level of difficulty to be this emotion that we call fun.

Andrew Mayer: Challenges and opportunities, right? The thing is you can’t just present people with challenges. I think this is what Miyamoto did so well if you look back at the heyday of the Mario 2, the Yoshi’s Island/Mario 3D days. What he got there perfectly was this balance of, “Okay, this is really hard. Yes, this is crazy. But I’m going to get through it and there’s going to be something worthwhile when I get to the other side.”

He was really good at that. He was really good at leaving out the breadcrumb trail to show you that there was something worthwhile that was going to be happening as you were going along.

So, bundling a challenge with an opportunity?

Andrew Mayer: Or holding out the promise of an opportunity beyond the challenge. I think there’s almost an infinite number of ways to do it. But, to let the player know that there is a reason to do this and that it’s worth the effort.

So, what is the role of a game designer?

Andrew Mayer: These days? Follow the metrics. Make the game better.

There’s two phases. There’s the game development phase, which is to create a platform for onboarding users and beginning to understand their play patterns.

Then, once they’re in there the designer’s job is to look at the metrics and figure out a way to optimize those metrics. I mean, that’s probably not what anybody wants to hear because it doesn’t sound very glamorous. But I think for the game design position, that’s a lot of what we’re looking at right. In social.

Classically, it was to be a player advocate. I think we did it well, whether they realized it or not. But I think with the advent of the metric-driven social, it’s become a much more mechanistic job than it used to be. Much more defined.

Not that they’re not worth their weight in gold, because they are. But you can’t be the artist to the degree that you can go in and go, “I’m an advocate for the hardcore gamer.” Like John Romero or Cliffy B, where it’s like, “I am the representative of these people and this is my tribe, and if I do it, they will love me.”

I think that’s a very accurate take at stripping away the romanticism of the job.

Andrew Mayer: Hard won knowledge.

And I do think with game design, there’s more romanticism than any other function within the industry.

Andrew Mayer: And more disillusionment from anybody who gets into it than any other industry in the world.

There’s two phases to being a game designer. There’s really, really wanting to do it. And then there’s wanting to do it after you’ve done it for a while.

Those are two very different things. Because you come into it with this idea that it’s going to be this amazing thing. And then when you find out what it really is, you think “Do I still really want to do it? What am I getting out of it?”

Was there a specific moment where you had that point of reflection in your own career? Where you felt like, “I know what game design is now…

Andrew Mayer: And I’m still going to hit myself in the head with a hammer.”

Yeah, it was early for me. At Twin Dolphin games, I came in as an Associate Producer for the very first game I’m going to work on. And it quickly became apparent that the Producer of the project was locked up in his office playing videogames all day and the engineers were basically on the verge of revolt.

And my job was to do a map, I was supposed to laying tiles on a map that’s ten thousand by ten thousand squares. Well, if you do the math on that’s it’s one hundred million.

I don’t think there’s actually one hundred million seconds in a year. So, even if I was working every second of every day, and laying one per second, assuming that nothing went wrong, it would still have been impossible for the game to ship. And when I went to the producer and told him that, he told me to shut up, basically.

So that was an eye-opener. I think for everybody it’s when you leave the first job, right? Because I think whatever your first job is, you come in with a sense of what you want and what you’re working for. And then you try to achieve that and you realize that it didn’t actually help.

And then you start to have a very different attitude when you go to your second job. And you say, okay, well, I’m not going to do that again. I’m going to advocate for something I believe in within the context of the company that I’m working for.

Does that make sense? Does that sound true to you?

It makes perfect sense.

Andrew Mayer: We all come in a little na?ve, right? We all come out of that first gig a little scarred, and then we make some decisions based on that.

What is the biggest challenge you face as a Creative Director?

Andrew Mayer: I think, for me right now, it’s working in genres that I’m not either familiar with or excited about. And trying to figure out how to generate excitement. And also figuring out how to layer game dynamics.

And I’ll tell you what it is. It’s every assumption must be questioned. It used to be that you could make some solid assumptions and now, with the metrics, every assumption must be questioned. So it feels a little bit like the ground is shifting underneath your feet all the time. And that can be disconcerting. Anything can go wrong. It may all go wrong.

The other thing I would say that is disconcerting for someone like me who’s been doing it for a long time, is it used to be that you would get information and you would try to deconstruct that information and figure out why something was happening.

These days, if you see a figure, “Oh, if I do this, I’ll get five percent more users.” Or one percent more users, two percent more users, right?

Yeah, five percent would be gang busters.

Andrew Mayer: Right. So, it’s like, “Okay why is that working? Doesn’t matter. Just do more of it.” You don’t need to deconstruct the assumption necessarily, you just work it until it stops working and then you go work something else.

So that’s a little different than where it used to be that you needed to understand why. When there was this bigger picture that you were building. You don’t always get to build the bigger picture.

Right. What is different between being a game designer than being a creative director? How are the two roles different?

Andrew Mayer: Because I’m responsible for the vision and the overall direction of the project, and for that bigger picture. So the creative director, at least in my experience, is responsible for the premise and the vision. What are we making and where is it going and why are we going there? And also asking “How are we going to get there?” Especially for new ideas.

The game designer’s job is to actually break it down and make the experience. How is this going to work? I’d say my job is more, what are we going to do? And why? And the designer’s job is more, how are we going to do it?

Talking about all the different factors in the equation, you’ve mentioned investors, CEO, engineers, metrics, marketing, audience.

Andrew Mayer: Artists.

Artists, right? And even QA. How much of the job of defining the vision is creating a vision? And how much of it is working with other people to get buy in on a vision.

Andrew Mayer: Ten percent the former and 90 percent of the latter. It’s collaborative. There’s no way around it. What I learned early on is you get to have one good idea per game, whether you’re a designer or a creative director or whatever.

And then the goal is to shepherd that one good idea as far as you can, and try to keep that good idea held together for as long as you can until the game ships. You have one good idea and then everything else is going to change around that good idea. And if that good idea survives, you’ve done your job.

I think with social, it’s just “What is the premise of the game? What are we making? What is the thing?” Everything else swims around that and changes. And changes after launch now, too, which is amazing.

When you look at your role what excites you most about being a creative director?

Andrew Mayer: To me, it’s the integration of the real world and the digital world. So what we’re doing with the real world integration for the game that we’re working on now [at Sojo Studios] is we have these real world causes and integrating real cause into the game is really, really exciting. So, there’s a lot of secret sauce there that I think that we’re learning about. And things that we’re doing that nobody else is doing.

So that’s really exciting to me; the walls between the real world and the virtual world are starting to crumble. And, when you see with the iPad and touch devices, these kind of things… we’re repainting the world in a digital palate. And I think that’s going to have major impact on the way that we play. I was a little worried that computers were going to become pads. But I think that we’re going to go beyond that so quickly, to where there’s going to be no effective difference between the device and the computer.

We’re about to infect the world with digital technology in a really fundamental way. Just like we wove the structure of electricity and running water, and all that stuff into our lives through the wires and stuff we put everywhere. We’re about to digitize the world.

On the converse side, what frustrates you about most about being a creative director?

Andrew Mayer: I think a lot of it is just the purity of the compromise, right? It’s that everything has to be filtered through metrics. There’s no being right, and the experiments are limited. I’m only allowed to experiment to the degree that I can express it as a sense of metrics. So that’s frustrating. Especially because it’s harder to bullshit. It’s harder to be like Don Draper “I’ve been doing this for 20 years, I know what I’m doing.”

You can get away with some of that. But you damn well better have checked your numbers and be right before you try and do it.

Yeah. I think as you career goes on, you learn being right isn’t important. Or, if you can let go of being right as being important and instead be someone who fosters open conversation.

Andrew Mayer: I totally agree with that. And it is good when it works. The problem is. . .

It’s very hard.

Andrew Mayer: It’s very, very hard to be that open all the time. And it’s very hard to be that patient all the time. Because sometimes you just want things to get done.(source:famousaspect)