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雷曼之父Michel Ancel谈初代游戏开发获得的启示&如何运用到续作上

发布时间:2020-12-03 08:49:12 Tags:,

雷曼之父Michel Ancel谈初代游戏开发获得的启示&如何运用到续作上

原作者:William Audureau 译者:Willow Wu

作为《雷曼》系列之父,同时也是广受好评的《超越善恶》的主创,Michel Ancel在2011年发行了2D游戏《雷曼:起源》,在Xbox 360、PlayStation 3和Wii平台上架,应用的是当年最新的UbiArt Framework技术。

“我们总是需要为这几十万,甚至几百万会买我们游戏的人考虑。我们的游戏必须对非玩家也是友好的,”Ancel说,他认为如今有些踏入行业的开发者创造的是“自闭式”的游戏——只能够取悦他们自己。

在这次采访中,Ancel分享了《雷曼:起源》的诞生故事,并为我们解答关于《超越善恶》的一些问题——为什么他会中途转向《雷曼:起源》,而不是继续完成《超越善恶》?他对于任天堂的马里奥和塞尔达游戏有什么看法,还有为什么他说自己跟著名游戏设计师宫本茂“非常不同”?

-你在《雷曼:起源》中具体是负责什么工作?

Michel Ancel:我是这个项目的发起人。我的正式职位是创意总监。我先是组建了一个只有两三人的小团队,对新一代的2D引擎做一些实验。

这其实是《超越善恶2》项目工作的延续。画师们做一些样本,我们用它们来快速建模关卡,比如说建一个森林。一切都是从这个工具开始,我们称之为UbiArt Framework。然后,我们对自己说:“为了证明这个引擎是有用的,我们就干脆用它做一个完整的游戏吧!”

-在2006年3月,继宫本茂、Frédérick Raynal之后,你是第三个被授予法国艺术与文学勋章的游戏开发者。但是从那之后,我们就再也没看到Michel Ancel招牌的游戏了,这是怎么回事呢?

Rayman-Jungle-Run(from insidemobileapps)

Rayman-Jungle-Run(from insidemobileapps)

MA:我在忙着置办骏马、盔甲,建城堡——你知道的,这都是很费时间的!开个玩笑,这些东西我都没有。我去参与《疯狂兔子》系列了,之前的3D《雷曼4》项目被砍了。你看看这职业生涯走势!我从《雷曼》开始,最后却沦落到搞这些傻兔子!

其实,这一切都是因为Wii的问世。我意识到,现在再做PlayStation 2冒险游戏是没有意义的,所以我们决定开发一个更合在聚会上玩的游戏,依然还是在主机平台。接着我就着手开发《超越善恶2》了,然后就是《雷曼:起源》。

-你什么时候转移到后者的?

MA:在开发《超越善恶2》的时候,我们意识到我们在创造一些非常疯狂的东西:城市、星球等等,这种规模跟初代完全不一样。

但事实证明,我们也出现了同样的问题——即使目前的游戏主机可以利用灯光、阴影效果等等呈现出非常精美的游戏画面,但从结构层面来说,我们还是觉得被束缚了。所以我说,”让我们来做一个完整的2D游戏,而不是完成度只有一半的3D游戏。”

-有人称你为“法国的宫本茂”,对此你有什么看法?会感到困扰吗?

MA:并不会,或许还有更不好听的说法呢(笑)。能够获得这种称呼当然是一种荣幸。我想我跟宫本茂还是非常不同的。不仅仅是因为我不会说日语!在我看来,他非常注重游戏玩法,而我也很喜欢使用各种技术工具。

但我真的很喜欢把艺术特色引入游戏的想法——也就是叙事、艺术画作,音乐——通过尽可能巧妙的方式将这一切结合在一起。宫本茂与我用的是两种不同的方法,这是两个不同的轨道。

他正是真正的大明星!当我拿自己跟他作比较时,我觉得自己还有很多东西要学,“法国的宫本茂”这种说法真是太高估我了!事实上,宫本一直是我的榜样,因为在我开始做游戏设计师时,没有电子游戏培训学校,职位定义不明确,无论如何,每个人都得找个人来做榜样,获得一些启发。宫本茂就是热门人选。

-你想跟他一起工作吗?

MA:这不可能的,但当然我是希望能有这么一天的。我们已经见过面了,他甚至还跟我说他不喜欢《超越善恶》!他很喜欢游戏中跟Pey’j这个配角的合作,但是他对游戏的镜头设置非常不满意。他建议我们看一下《阳光马里奥》(Super Mario Sunshin)这个游戏。

-你曾说过如果法国有人可以和宫本茂比较的话,那应该是育碧的首席创意总监Serge Hascoët。

MA:当然是这样的,因为他们俩是相同的——从哲学意义上来说。他百分之百地专注于游戏玩法和游戏感受,而我自己则更多地在玩法和故事之间徘徊。

-你还记得在开发第一代《雷曼》时,Hascoët有没有给你什么特别的建议?

MA:当然记得。有人可能会知道Serge最开始是一名游戏测试员,所以他玩过很多游戏。然后,他开始负责评估哪些是优秀的游戏,哪些不是。

我第一次见到他的时候,他正在研究Amstrad。他很擅长分析,有时候他不得不因为缺乏趣味性而砍掉一些画面精美的游戏。他确实有这种洞察力,虽然没有给出具体的书面建议, 但获得这种洞察力显然是重要的第一步。

但是当《雷曼》的开发工作开始时,真正让我感到惊讶的是他的愿景:他像电影制作人一样思考游戏开发,有特定的语言,有剪辑,有组件等等。我们认识到我们也需要一种合适的语言来谈论游戏设计和关卡设计。现在的电子游戏课程教的就是如何分析这些元素。

这很像是写一个调子,然后扩展到管弦乐配器,或者编曲。首先你需要有个基底,然后你可以尝试发展出更多不同的变化,同时也可以在节奏上下功夫。基底、变化、节奏——几乎所有的电子游戏都是这样。

-Hascoët带给你的影响还有别的吗?

MA:在开发King Kong的时候,我们从他那边又学到了很多。我们逼自己不用过场动画,而是在游戏过程中讲故事。这是一次很好的锻炼。Serge告诉我们:“我们不能再往游戏里放过场动画了,不能再做这种事。是游戏让故事变得具有感染力,如果你想传递出什么信息,你最好能够让玩家有身临其境的感觉。”

《刺客信条》就是基于这样的理念创作的。这个项目差不多是在同一时期发起的,2004年左右。游戏本身很有电影感,但它讲述的是玩家的故事,而不是开发者的故事。这真的是一个很前沿的观念。大概2年之后,Serge又做了另外一个决策:他想要所有游戏都达到60帧/秒。这并不是每个人都能做到的……

-这个决策听起来跟玩法好像没有多少关系。

MA:但它确实有,就是游戏舒适度的问题。在60帧条件下,镜头、移动、操作的流畅度都会有明显的提升。我们在《雷曼:起源》上就成功实现了,这是我们曾经的目标之一。

-如今,你会给你的团队提出什么样的建议?

MA:对于刚毕业的应届游戏专业学生,我们要多加关注。我们要让他们融入到观众、玩家中。我们面对的都是热爱电子游戏的人——这是至关重要的,也是有益的——但他们往往只专注于自己的娱乐。

-能给我们举一些例子吗?

MA:当然。有一些关卡没人能上手,能玩起来的只有关卡设计者本人。这就像是一个当代的艺术作品——一个艺术家的作品,或者应该说,这是一个自闭式的作品。因为这一切都是为他自己而创作的。但电子游戏应该是为其他人创作的。我最近玩了一些地图,结果一直以失败告终。做了一个自己都打不过的游戏,这还是挺尴尬的。

-所以这是怎么影响到游戏开发的?

MA:我开始不断提醒自己,确保我这种水平的用户能够打完游戏是非常重要的。我并不是特别会打游戏的人,没关系,不是每个人都是高玩。我们得时刻为那几十万甚至几百万可能会接触我们游戏的人考虑。我们得为非游戏玩家群体展现出一个友好的姿态。我认为电子游戏不应该是“圈地自萌”的。我过去常常会思考玩家与非玩家之间的战争,我觉得在这块地方还有很多值得探究的,我们需要帮他们一把。

《雷曼:起源》这个游戏,我们想要玩家可以跟他们的女友一起玩——也就是可能对游戏相当反感的一群人——但是我们得把这扇门留着,让这样的群体也能在游戏中找到乐趣。我特别注意这点。我们就像山地导游,或者冲浪教练:我们热爱它,但我们也可以把这种激情分享给别人。

这就是我们最常对游戏开发者说的。当他们对游戏制作工具、方法都得心应手的时候,还有这么一件小事需要注意——我们是为千千万万的人工作的。但很多人要等到用户站到他们面前才会意识到!

-我猜马里奥游戏肯定是《雷曼》系列的主要灵感来源之一吧。

MA:就我来说的话,绝对不是!我告诉你一件“可怕”的事——我其实不怎么喜欢马里奥游戏。这是一个殿堂级别的IP,我知道很多人都非常喜欢,但它确实不是我的菜。

我过去更喜欢的是《魔界村》《黑暗之心》《另一个世界》这样比较注重叙事的游戏。我觉得马里奥在操作方面也趣味十足,尽管如此我还是不会爱上它。这游戏太惊险刺激了。

-你之前说最喜欢的游戏是超任平台的Legend of the Mystical Ninja,这挺让我意外的。多种玩法风格的融合,这在《超越善恶》中也表现了出来——就好像是相比体现出游戏的类型特征而言,通过一种互动方式来讲述故事才是更重要的。

MA:正是如此。在我看来,这对游戏是非常重要的。也是在差不多的时期,Super Mario World问世了,但如果要我选择的话,我肯定会选Legend of the Mystical Ninja。主要是因为这是一个可以双人合作的游戏。还有Mode 7式渲染的Boss、剧情、隐藏的路径,以及“游戏中的游戏”。的确,这是一个难以定义游戏。

我有时会忘记提起这个游戏,但除了《塞尔达传说:众神的三角力量》之外,它就是我的参考范本之一。它们都有一个共同点:游戏本身就是一个独特的世界。玩法是次要的。当然,我们说到电子游戏时,玩法是必不可少的。但无论是哪种情景,存在某种形式的叙事,总是会锦上添花的。玩法关乎的是行动。而故事则是在解释我们为什么要追求这种行动。

-初代《雷曼》的起源故事着实令人意外啊。你之前都没提起过任何跟游戏玩法相关的抱负。这款游戏似乎是从艺术家的角度去设计的,这对于一个平台游戏来说是很不寻常的。

MA:确实如此。说实话,初代《雷曼》在项目刚开始时并不是那么有趣。但是Serge Hascoët来了,我们学会将艺术和玩法巧妙地结合在一起。

-如今,最让你引以为豪的是哪个游戏?

MA:《超越善恶》是我的得意之作,即使我再玩高清版的时候,有时也会觉得它应该重新被人们所关注……我们从这个项目中学到了很多经验教训,明白了需要改进的地方还有很多。我想《超越善恶2》与初代《超越善恶》之间的区别,就如同《雷曼:起源》与初代《雷曼》那样明显吧。关于节奏、关于游戏玩法,我们学到的一切都得到了应用。

本文由游戏邦编译,转载请注明来源,或咨询微信zhengjintiao

Best known as the creator of Rayman and also as the mind behind the acclaimed Beyond Good & Evil, Michel Ancel recently revitalized the series that put him on the map with the release of Rayman Origins, a new 2D entry in the series for Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and Wii, that harkens back to its beginnings while debuting new technology: the UbiArt Framework.

“We always need to think about the hundreds of thousands, maybe the millions of people who might play our game. We have to always be welcoming to the non-players,” says Ancel, who feels that some developers coming into the industry these days create “autistic” games to please only themselves.

In this interview, Ancel also speaks about the game’s genesis, what’s going on with Beyond Good & Evil, why he made the leap to Rayman Origins instead of completing that game, what he thinks about Nintendo’s Mario and Zelda games, and why he’s “very different” from famed creator Shigeru Miyamoto.

What was your exact involvement with Rayman Origins?

Michel Ancel: I’m the one who started the project. I officially worked as a creative director. I first put together a small team of two or three people to make some trials on a new generation 2D engine.

It was a continuation of what we were doing with Beyond Good & Evil 2 — a visual pattern generating-based engine. Artists make some patterns, like samples, and we use them to quickly model levels, as to have a forest, for example. Everything started from this tool, which we called the UbiArt Framework. Then we said to ourselves, “To prove that this engine works, let’s make an entire game with it!”

In March 2006, alongside Shigeru Miyamoto and Frédérick Raynal, you were one of the first three video game developers to be knighted under the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres in France. But since then, no Michel Ancel game has made it to stores. How come?

MA: I was busy with my horse, my armor, my castle — it took me a lot of time, you know! [laughs] No, no, I didn’t have any castle, neither armor nor horse. I just participated in the genesis of the Rabbids, working from a canceled 3D Rayman 4 project. Tell me about luck! I started with Rayman, and it finished with these stupid Rabbids! [smiles]

Actually, it all went this way because of the coming of the Wii. I realized it would be useless to make the adventure game I would have made on PlayStation 2, so we’ve moved on with a more appropriate party game, which fitted best to the console. Then I moved on [Beyond Good & Evil] 2, and then recently to Rayman Origins.

When did you switch from Beyond Good & Evil 2 to Rayman?

MA: While working on BGE 2, we realized that, technologically speaking, we were making something quite crazy, with cities, planets, and everything we couldn’t put into the first BGE.

But it turned out that we were heading to the same syndrome — that is to say that, even if current consoles can apparently feature some very good-looking things, with lights, shadows and so on, architecturally speaking, we felt bounded. So I said, “Let’s make a full 2D game instead of half of a 3D game.”

You’ve been called “the French Miyamoto.” How do you feel about it? Does it bother you?

MA: No, it could have been a lot worse. [smiles] Of course it’s an honor. I think I’m very different from Miyamoto. And not only because I don’t speak Japanese! In my opinion, he focuses a lot on gameplay, whereas I really like to work with technical tools, too.

I really loved the idea of introducing artistic features in games — that is to say the storytelling, the artwork, music — and to get everything together in the best possible alchemy. We have two different approaches, two different tracks.

And he’s such a star! When I’m compared to him, I find it very exaggerated. I still have a lot to learn! Actually, Miyamoto has always been one of my models, because when I started as a game designer, there were no video games schools, no well-defined jobs, and anyhow, everyone had to find someone to get inspired from. Miyamoto is the top guy.

Would you like to work with him?

MA: It never happened, but of course I wish I could. We’ve already met. He even told me he wasn’t fond of BGE! [laughs, embarrassed] He really liked the cooperation work with [sidekick character] Pey’j, but wasn’t satisfied with cameras. He suggested we had a look at what Nintendo did with Super Mario Sunshine.

In your French biography, you said that if anyone in France should be compared to Miyamoto, it should be Serge Hascoët [Ubisoft's chief creative director].

MA: Absolutely — because he has the same profile, philosophically speaking. He’s one hundred percent focused on the gameplay and the game sensations, where as I’m myself a little more between gameplay and story.

Do you remember any particular advice Hascoët gave you while you were working on the original Rayman?

MA: Absolutely. One may notice that Serge began as a tester — hence, he went through a lot of games. Then he became in charge of evaluating which games were good and which ones were not.

He was working on the ['80s PC format] Amstrad when I first met him. He had a very analytic point of view, and sometimes he had to dismiss some gorgeous games because of their lack of any interest. He does have that insight, and although it hasn’t been voiced as a literal advice, getting this insight was clearly a first step.

But when Rayman’s development began, what really struck me was his vision: he considers game making as a filmmaker would, with a specific language, with editing, with components, and so on. We learned from him that we needed a proper language to talk about game design and level design. To analyze those elements is now what is taught in video game schools.

It’s pretty much like making a music tune, and then working over it to get an orchestration, or an arrangement. First you need to put the basis; then you may try to obtain the more different experiences you can get from this basis, while also working on rhythm. Basis, variety, rhythm — almost all video games come down to this.

Do you have other memories of Hascoët’s influences?

MA: King Kong’s development. We learnt a lot from him, again. We forced ourselves not to use cinematics, as to tell the story while the player is playing. It was a neat exercise. We owe it to Serge, who told us one day, “We’re done putting cinematics in video games. We don’t do that anymore. It’s up to the game to make a story alive. If you have anything to tell, you’d better have the player living it.”

And Assassin’s Creed is based upon this idea. The project germinated around the same time, around 2004. The game is very cinematic in itself, but it tells the player’s story, not the developer’s. It really was a decision that was at the forefront. And two years later, Serge came out with another decision: he wanted every game to be 60 frames per second. But not everyone managed to do it…

This specific decision sounds to be less about gameplay.

MA: But it is, because 60 frames per second, it’s simply all about the game’s comfort. It’s all about the smoothness of the camera, the moves, and the controls. We managed to do it with Rayman Origins; it was one of our objectives.

And nowadays, which advice do you give to your team?

MA: There’s some refocusing we always have to do with fresh, recent video game school graduates. We have to make them fit to the audience, the players. One always wants to please oneself, and we are faced with people who love video games – which is essential, it’s a good thing – but who tend to focus on their own amusement.

Do you have some examples?

MA: Yes, of course. We had some levels no one could even play, but the level designer himself! It was something of a contemporary art work — an artist’s work, or should I say, almost an autistic work. Because in this case, everything is done for oneself. Whereas video games are for others, actually. So I happened to play some maps I couldn’t even finish myself. I was quite embarrassed to make a game I couldn’t beat myself at home! [laughs]

And how did it impact the game’s development?

MA: I began to repeat to myself how important it was that someone like me could finish the game. I’m not an amazing player, and it’s fine, because not everyone is an amazing player. We always need to think about the hundreds of thousands, maybe the millions of people who might play our game. We have to always be welcoming to the non-players. I don’t think video games should withdraw into itself. I often used to think about player versus non-player wars, and they’re a pity; we need to give people a hand.

With Rayman Origins, we wanted gamers to be able to play with their girlfriend, who maybe hates video games, but we needed to keep this door open so that even so she could find something to have fun with. I’m very sensitive to this. We’re like mountain guides, or super surf teachers: we love it, but we can also share this passion.

That’s what we repeat the most to game designers. When they’re comfortable with tools, methods, there’s this little one thing: to realize that we work for millions of people. But you would almost need to have every one of them in front of you to understand!

I’d guess the Mario games must have been a huge inspiration for Rayman games.

MA: As far as I’m concerned, not at all! I will tell you something terrible — I don’t really enjoy playing Mario games. I don’t like gliding, I don’t like its inertia, and I don’t like not being able to give some slaps! It’s a fabulous series, and I understand that people love it, but it’s not my cup of tea.

I used to prefer Ghosts n’ Goblins, Heart of Darkness, Another World — games with a focus on the narrative side. Beyond that, I find Mario’s controls very interesting, but I don’t buy it. I can’t help but seeing the ropes of the game, even if it works. The game is thrilling, obviously.

In your biography, surprisingly, the game you’re the most enthusiastic about is Legend of the Mystical Ninja, on Super NES. This merging of gameplay styles, it’s something we can also find in Beyond Good & Evil — as if it was less important to fit into a genre than to tell a story by interactive means.

MA: Exactly. It was a really important game for me. Around that time, Super Mario World was out, but if I were given the choice, I preferred to play Mystical Ninja. Primarily because it was a two player game, that one might climb on the other’s shoulders. And they were this mythical levels, where you could make the background crumble, the other player fall. And then there were the Mode 7-style rendered bosses, a story, hidden paths, and games inside the game. It’s true that it was a game one couldn’t define.

I sometimes forget to quote it, but alongside The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, it’s one of my models. They share one thing in common: they’re a world in their own. Gameplay is secondary. Of course, when it comes to video games, gameplay is essential. But whenever there is storytelling, some sense, it’s better. Gameplay is about action. But it’s the story which explains why we pursue this action.

This is something very striking about the genesis of the first Rayman. In your biography, you never talk about any gameplay-related ambitions. It looks like the game had been thought of from an artist’s view, which is pretty unusual for a platformer.

MA: It’s true. To tell the truth, the first Rayman wasn’t so fun at the beginning of the project. But when Serge Hascoët arrived, we were able to find the correct alchemy between the artistic side and the gameplay.

Today, which game are you the most proud of?

MA: Of course I’m very happy with Beyond Good & Evil, even if while playing it again in HD, I sometimes felt it deserved to be dusted. We learned so much since BGE that we’d of course have a lot to things to polish. I think than Beyond Good & Evil 2 might be as different from the first Beyond Good & Evil as Rayman Origins is from the first Rayman. Everything we learned about rhythm, and mastering the gameplay, we’ll be able to use it.

(source: gamasutra.com )


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