作者：Keith Stuart

本月初，创新的独立游戏与主流游戏（如《耻辱》和《孤岛惊魂3》）共同获得Bafta电子游戏大奖的荣誉，暗示了游戏业正崛起一股新力量。

但随着开发成本的上升、新一代主机初露苗头以及新付费方式（微交易）的出现，游戏业终于迎来了其历史上最混乱、最空前绝后的时期。

那么接下来又有什么动向呢？颂奖典礼后，我与监督评奖的Bafta电子游戏委员会的四位资深游戏开发人促膝而谈。他们分别是：Harvey Elliott（Electronic Arts的前任工作室主管，中间件开发公司Marmalde现任总经理）、Paulina Bozek（索尼游戏《SingStar》系列的执行制作人，现在经营社交游戏工作室Inensu）、Georg Backer（游戏邦注：曾供职于Lionhead，后与Jonathan Ross合作创办Hotsauce Interactive）、以及Andy Payne（Mastertronic总经理兼行业组织UKIE的主席）。

我们探讨的主题是游戏业的现状和未来。以下是他们所说的内容——可归纳为15个要点。

我们先简要地回顾一下Bafta电子游戏大奖。独立游戏战果颇丰，《Journey》、《Unfinished Swan》和《The Room》各得其所。它们得奖对业界而言，意味着什么？

Harvey Elliott（HE）：看到这么多独立游戏被提名，与行业巨头同场竞技，最后还摘得多项大奖，我感到非常高兴——这是它们应得的。这是一次意义深远的颁奖礼。我认为Bafta委员会现在越来越能代表行业的眼光了。这说明了我们比过去更能接受和拥护新事物了。

Andy Payne（AP）：我认为颁奖结果确实反映了行业现状。我要说的重点是，时代变了。（1）现在，要做出一款卓越的游戏，你可能砸很多钱，也可能只费一点点成本。看吧，《New Star Soccer》与《Fifa》对抗，赢了！对我而言，这真是历史性的一刻。那天晚上许多开发者说，‘我现在觉得倍受鼓舞，我也想赢！’以前我从来没有见过这种情景。

Georg Backer（GB）：关键是，所有游戏应该出现在颁奖礼上——这不只是独立游戏必须出席的问题。

AP：今年有很多游戏不属于射击类的！大多数电子游戏是关于射击的。但游戏不应该这么局限。

Paulina Bozek（PB）：在公布Bafta大奖的前几天，我看了游戏开发者大会的调查，觉得有意思。这是史上最大的一次行业盛会，过半参与者从事的是手机游戏，因为手机游戏很适合独立开发。所以大奖结果确实与时俱进，反映了行业现状。

但除了独立游戏，看到一些优秀的AAA作品也是很不错的……

AP：是的，《耻辱》摘得最佳游戏桂冠。一个新的游戏神话诞生了。

非常令人振奋——我们正在进入新主机时代，当然，通常我们指的是在视觉效果和处理性能方面。但人们在玩在说的新游戏似乎不是《New Star Soccer》就是《Journey》……

HE：这说明玩家重视玩法。我的意思是，我不会傻看着如《孤岛惊魂3》等主流游戏，心想，‘呃，还不够好，如果我们的处理性能还能再强一点就好了。’我认为我们现在急需的不是新技术，而是非同一般的游戏玩法和体验。

AP：整个开发迭代都改变了。新平板不断出现——我们现在不是坐着苦等新技术的出现。游戏机游戏制作者面临严峻的挑战了。

GB：开发的门槛降低也是关键。你不仅有办法接触到数字化分配渠道，而且可以使用到简化游戏开发的工具——或至少帮助你克服技术障碍。你的创意思维才是限制。看看Dare to Be Digital网站上的赢家，看看《The Room》——那都是搞外包的家伙的杰作呀。他们只需要一个人写代码！（2）所以目前情况就是这样——只要有合适的工具，任何人都可以做出不得了的游戏。

所以重点还是创意想法，但你不能否认这与新平台也有关系。没有平板，《The Room》就什么也不是了……

PB：当然，那些人气十足的平台也有很大作用。在iPad上玩《The Room》确实是非常棒的体验。同时，那些设备是完全开放的，所以开发者可以尽情实验，即使是小工作室，也可反复尝试。事实上，作为游戏人，你有无尽的可能在6、7次尝试中发现一些不可思议的东西。而游戏机游戏开发就没有这种优势了。但我认为这也是下一代游戏机游戏的趋势，这无关技术飞跃，而在于开放和灵活——允许人们在目前相当封闭和困难的环境下自由创作。

索尼在发布PS4时想说的肯定就是这一番话了——硬件和基础设施似乎更加适合实验了……

PB：我认为如果主机发展到这个阶段，如果你有一款大游戏的第五部续作的版权，原开发商只是不停地拿它炒冷饭，（3）想象一下如果将这么一款大游戏开放给第三方，而第三方又有能力将游戏往新的方向拓展，那是多么令人吃惊的事。我从社交和家庭游戏的角度思考——许多这类游戏已经到头了，但如果你肯将游戏系统开放出来，允许其他开发者自行拓展和延伸，那么游戏仍有创新的可能。这该是多么有意义的事呀。

HE：那正是Gabe Newell对Valve所做的探索。看看《半条命》和他们开发的技术。《传送门》是那么来的，《CS》也是那么来的。那正是游戏业的未来。（4）为了让主机生存下来，必须开放市场，允许任何人开发他们自己的内容。当然，大发行商仍然有办法做出优秀的AAA内容，但应该允许各种可能。我对Valve在Steam上的成就表示敬意——主机游戏也必须进入那个领域的核心地带，提高竞争力。

所以将来可能出现这样一个模式：发行商允许独立游戏开发者制作游戏的续作，或至少允许开发副产品？我的意思是，如果允许，《死亡空间3》会变得更出色，我不知道是谁做了《Lone Survivor》，Parsac productions还是Jasper Byrne？

GB：事实上，我认为去年出现了一些相当不错的续作，比如《孤岛惊魂3》、《杀手》的新作……但我认为独立游戏开发者应该正视的现实是，玩家注重的是玩法。别再妄想一鸣惊人，一作成名了。只要大发行商暂时对你开放游戏，就有公平竞争的可能。不过，在过去两年，独立游戏的兴起使那些发行商意识到，续作必须得非常非常好才行。

大型发行商现在开始警惕独立游戏开发了——《Minecraft》已经证明了其中存在的商业潜能。

PB：一定程度上，作为独立开发者，允许你犯错的余地更小，你承担不起犯错的代价，特别是新工作室，正在用新想法开发游戏，又没有强大的营销支持。你必须做好。除了作为独立开发者的热情和坚定的信念，你什么也没有。你唯一的指望的就是把游戏做好。

AP：玩家生成内容越来越重要了。反馈就是一切。（5）生产者-消费者关系就是一切——我们才刚刚进入这个美好的时期。作为玩家，我们总是开发者给什么我们就玩什么。但是这样的时代已经终结了。现在，你刚入手一款游戏，可是突然之间它就变了；因为反馈，特别是对于移动设备上的游戏。这是一种更民主的方式，我认为它将改变游戏行业的商业模式。（6）埋头苦做游戏两年，无聊至极，没人希望这样，开发者当然也不想。太久了，没人热衷了。之后开发者将游戏呈现给世界，世界却弃他们而去。开发者哭喊着，‘我们到底忙活什么了？’尽早把游戏拿出来！听听玩家们怎么说！

PB：无论你是独立开发者还是大工作室，做出一款游戏放到消费者面前，最终获得成功，这个过程是很费时间的。况且，现在成功的频率可没有以前密集了。(7)你可能可能花了12个月的时间，才做出一款吸引玩家的游戏。对于独立开发者，那是很难过的，因为你得养活你自己——即使收益不够，你也得继续完善游戏……

当然，《Minecraft》最终采用了一种商业模式，通道收费，然后花钱请玩家，让他们当QA测试员！

HE：那种现象一直存在，无论是《Minecraft》还是Kickstarter的融资，人们总是愿意当某事物的粉丝，表示希望看到开发团队的成果。免费模式允许玩家尝试后再决定是否投资。游戏的消费者能够以多种方式参与游戏，无论是预付款还是为可能取决于你的东西买单，或者支付一些非常小的东西。这些模式都有助于独立开发者的生存发展，只要平台仍然支持独立开发，这一行绝对会兴旺起来。一鸣惊人也并非不可能。

所以索尼和微软能从行业现状中领悟到什么，对它们将来的开发有何启示？

AP：Xbox和PlayStation都是大品牌，无人不知。他们面临的挑战是创造一个支持所有类型游戏的生态系统——这是连接性的问题，也是智能性的问题。

HE：正如Andy所说的，就智能手机和平板而言，新硬件是层出不穷的。新硬件推动了市场的发展，因为它们有更强的连接性能，允许数字下载，密集游戏，即时登录游戏……它们还有社交媒体方面的优势：大多数游戏允许你在Twitter或Facebook上分享你的游戏体验，从而扩大社交网络。微软靠玩家积分和成就，在这方面进展不错，索尼也试了一把。我认为这些领域正是他们应该考察的。（8）生态系统是很重要，但允许玩家谈论游戏、参与游戏、反馈游戏的社交环境也是很重要的……只有平台支持社交功能，它们才会繁荣。无视智能手机和平板，可能会失去市场。

主机制造商对独立游戏的兴趣越来越浓厚了，但他们对自己的平台仍然严格把关。

GB：但独立游戏就是存在——早在第一代主机出现之时，独立游戏就诞生了。那些次世代游戏机会变成什么样，真是令人期待。会不会发行独立游戏呢？你必须开放平台，让人们早一点尝试。你必须在发行时抓住势头。

PB：就游戏水平上而言，（9）贯穿主机制造业今年发展的重点就是，能不能慧眼识珠——如《Journey》或《Unfinished Swan》。这两款游戏都经历了实验过程。索尼就认出来了，给他们大平台，结果确实成功了。那正是平台持有者能做的事——为新事物的成长助力。就向开发者开放平台而言，是具有两面性的。一方面，索尼似乎让组成系统的基础设施和构建物变得简单了，但另一方面，开发者要在主机上发行游戏，仍然要经过大量的审批程序，甚至在主要支持小游戏的PSN上也要经过传统的审批流程。这些只需要加以调整——并非从无到有地构建一个完整的系统。

AP：你得让别人多活活。他们仍然有控制平台的必要。独家游戏的这个想法——年轻一代的玩家就是不理解为什么不能在PlayStation上玩《光晕》或者为什么不能在《Xbox》上玩《神秘海域》。真是荒唐的系统——必须淘汰了。

HE：游戏业经历过大变革了。经过两次硬件革命，80%的游戏市场被游戏机占领。当时，如果你想存活，你必然得走游戏机道路。但是现在，Steam重新激活PC游戏市场了，而苹果和Android又创造了新的独立游戏市场……主机必须迎接新时代；因为即使游戏没了它们也照样存在。现在用户手上往往不止一部设备——他们可能同时拥有游戏机、智能手机或平板，他们获取新内容的方式也很多——并且他们也不那么挑剔了。无论你是在高性能PC上还是在iPhone上玩，《行尸走肉》的游戏体验都是一样的。

PB：我喜欢在iPad上玩《行尸走肉》——不只是因为触摸屏，还因为方便携带。想象一下，在外风餐露宿12年是什么情况，玩一下这款游戏吧！很恐怖，但是太酷了！游戏体验已经超越图像所能表达的了。

AP：我认为游戏机制造商已经意识到他们再也不是游戏领域的霸主了。我是指，战争过去只存在于任天堂、索尼和微软等开发商之间。但现在简直是星球大战了，除了它们，又出现了许多新贵：苹果、谷歌、三星……它们都对内容开发兴致勃勃，它们不会只盯着主机公司。只守着主机，这绝对是行不通的。

HE：我记得当Super Nintendo在英国发行时，它有三款游戏。才三款游戏啊！你等了几个月就是为了这三款游戏。

他们对Wii U也是这么干的！

GB：我认为（10）玩家关注游戏的耐力也大不如前了。过去，我甚至会关注两年以后才发行的游戏！可是现在，这两周会出什么新作我都不知道了！我再也不需要那么坚韧的耐力了，因为每个平台上每天都会出现许多好东西。我特别欣赏Steam的一点是，当我购买一款游戏后，我可以在PC上下载，也可以在Mac上下载，在什么设备上下载都无所谓。很棒吧？

HE：这也是生态系统，这是从独立开发者到行业巨人的整个范围。

我们真的在朝着只有数字化游戏的时代前进吗？

HE：我不知道，但是我的孩子并不关心他们有没有盒装游戏！

PB：那么，上哪去买非数字化的游戏呢？

我想对许多人而言，是上Amazon或者超市吧……

GB：但是，我家里的宽带简直是垃圾。有时候，我还挺怀念去商店买游戏的时代。人们仍然喜欢特别的版本……

HE：说到底，最重要的不是流通平台，而是玩法体验。

AP：我的公司几乎破产了，因为游戏机发行的问题。并不是因为游戏卖不掉，而是因为生产实体产品太费成本，并且将存货放到零售商店时仍然拿不到钱，除非产品卖出去了。商店没有承担任何风险。如果你只是小开发者，你就得对游戏机制造商、Walmart、Bestbuy和Game点头哈腰，即使它们都不承担风险。那就是为什么你要不断制作续作（游戏邦注：因为制作、出售新作的风险更大）。那就是电子表格游戏，所有人都会觉得厌烦的。

HE：如果你的游戏是主机版本的，你就要为光盘付印刷费。

AP：如果你希望你的游戏出现在货架上，你还要在每一家商店里放上不少于一份的游戏——这样你需要很多份游戏，你就得开始支付空间占用费。我的意思是，这么多年来，游戏商店与其说是出售游戏，不如说是出售空间——他们很奇怪为什么我们突然之间就不再要空间了。有了数字化，意味着你提前投入金钱和时间，然后再发行产品——如果卖不动，那就惨了，但是你不需要承担占用空间的费用。现在面临的问题是，游戏应该标多少价？人们的心理价位是多少？因为没有实体产品，意味着灵活性增加了。(11)如果你在Steam平台上持续赢利超过一个周末，那就够你的公司运转三个月了——一款游戏你没玩一阵子就算是置闲的老游戏了。

PB：最大的挑战仍然是“被发现”。现在不是零售的问题，而是游戏实在太多了。(12)作为开发者，你在建立玩家基础上花费的时间相当于你思考游戏开发本身的时间。

GB：社区建设是必须的！

AP：你知道，零售商也正在琢磨着要在这方面做点什么，比如公开游戏制作者？比如做一个真正的游戏展示厅，而不是单纯地出售游戏？

HE：当你想买游戏时，玩家群体的意见影响很大。如果你有零售支持那个渠道，比如‘谁做了这款游戏，玩家评价如何，有没有可靠的推荐’，那么他们就知道该买什么了……

从成功的独立书籍零售商那儿，我们看到了街道零售的未来是聚合性和个人服务……

HE：我从Waterstones书店的营销策略中吸引了经验。当你走进书店，他们会给你推荐，他们会给你指南，我喜欢那种方式。我不知道他们的模式是否能持续下去，因为存放书籍很占空间，但这个模式必定不能只是‘这是一个你收集东西的地方’，因为如果是那样，你还不如去Tesco。

数字化还带来新的游戏体验类型——比如你只需要三个小时就能玩完《Journey》和《The Room》了。好吧，这没什么问题，因为现在有能够支持这种体验的收费模式。

AP：对于商店出售，你得与零售方一起制定价格。我是说，我们得不停地讨论……在《World of Goo》大热以前，我达成协议将它做成盒装游戏。我要怎么说动零售商呢？他们从来没听说过它。我认为这款游戏得标价6英镑。他们说10英镑。我说不行，6英镑。所以他们只好说，‘好吧，5英镑。’所以我们就那么定价了，但他们没有挣到足够多的钱，我们也是。而在数字化时代，你可以自己定价，然后看市场反应。你可以自己把握机会。

PB：关键是既讨好休闲玩家，又受硬核玩家欢迎。《The Room》和《Journey》就做到了。它们仍然提供深刻的游戏体验。（13）我们不再认为非硬核玩家肤浅了。游戏说不上肤浅或幼稚，只是易用性的问题。我们能领悟到这点，真是太好了。

GB：我确实认为电子游戏市场进步了。过去，游戏看重的就是多少个关卡，多少种武器，但现在更强调玩家的体验。游戏宣传现在更像电影广告了。

但在游戏设计领域，似乎出现了新弊病。比如，《古墓丽影》和《孤岛惊魂3》中充斥着大量支线任务和迷你游戏：做这个，试那个，想去那个墓穴吗？去吧！想和四轮车赛跑吗？跑吧！亲爱的客人，这是……游戏设计师似乎都患上妄想症了，似乎一旦让玩家有喘息的机会，他们就会觉得厌烦，转而去玩iPhone游戏了。

HE：那是因为玩家确实会！五年以前，游戏玩家一年购买五款游戏。PlayStation 2的软件对主机的销售比差不多是3：1或4：1。现在，玩家拥有上百款游戏，他们的手机上、Facebook上都有游戏……大游戏害怕，如果它们不时时提醒你有什么好东西你还没玩到，你就会对它们失去兴趣。

GB：当游戏机加载时，我确实会玩《愤怒的小鸟》！（14）但在手机上，如果你有一阵子没玩某游戏了，它们就会提醒你，给你发短信——回来吧，我给你好东西。那也许就是下一代主机的考虑方向吧。当玩家没在玩游戏时，我们如何保持他们的沉浸感？

HE：但回到实体产品的问题，它们是否还有存在的空间。我认为有的，因为数字化、宽带是问题，储存也是问题：除非你的下载速度很快，你的硬件很大，否则你就需要实体空间。Steam很了不起——你可以重复下载游戏到你的系统中，但宽带有限。我知道我可以把所有游戏重新安装到iPad上，但它总是满的。所以实体产品总是有存在的必要，特别是大容量的蓝光碟。

极少人使用的PlayStation 4却有一个有趣的特点，也就是即时访问—–索尼收购云端游戏服务公司Gaikai，利用其技术，这样玩家就可以选择一款数字游戏后马上开始玩。他们希望消除更新和补丁的加载时间。索尼希望PS4就像电视一样，每款游戏就相当于不同的频道。

PB：是个有趣的设想——PS4希望变得更像一家以游戏作为频道的媒体公司。同时，还有媒体公司试图涉足游戏。电视观众正在灭绝，观看大规模播放的频道越来越显得怪异。所有东西都在个人化。但想到游戏公司变成放送游戏频道的媒体公司，一切都会改变的。实在太有趣了。

HE：看到所有不同的行业、不同的媒体汇聚到一起，形成互相关联的社交体验，确实令人振奋……

GB：问题是，现在它只是另一种娱乐形式罢了。我家里有人玩《愤怒的小鸟》比我强，但如果我叫他们游戏玩家，他们又会否认。只是娱乐罢了……

所有媒体都想捕获这类群体！所有媒体都想成为唯一的娱乐来源——无论是什么媒体。

AP：看吧，我的宽带流量是有封顶的，有人问我怎么受得了。那是因为我宽带供应商一直是同一个。就是银行帐号——我们极少更换。所以像Virgin和Sky这样的大传媒公司就会互相争夺你这样的消费者，因为他们知道，一旦捕获你，你就不太可能跑去其他地方了。这些家伙渴望自己成为唯一。Sharp和Samsung说，我们就是唯一的，因为我们有屏幕！所有人都想成为唯一。但你只能有一个唯一！你看Microsoft这样的公司什么都要插一脚……

PB：好吧，（15）如果你想成为唯一，你必须有软件平台，而不是硬件平台。许多公司试图成为占据实际利益的唯一，无论是石油还是什么的——那种唯一的地位就更难撼动了。而在软件方面，成为唯一就容易得多。尽管我们还只字未提Ouya和Gamestick——它们有自己的角色，不过还有一段距离。

HE：所以最开始的问题的答案就是，游戏业现在处于非常令人兴奋的时期！（本文为游戏邦/gamerboom.com编译，拒绝任何不保留版权的转载，如需转载请联系：游戏邦）

Developers vs the industry: 15 ideas about the future of games

by Keith Stuart

Earlier this month, the Bafta video game awards seemed to show an industry in rude health, with innovative indie titles sharing the honours with interesting mainstream success stories like Dishonored and Far Cry 3.

But with the cost of development rising, a new console generation on the horizon and radical new billing methods emerging (hello microtransactions!), this is also one of the most disruptive and unpredictable periods in the history of gaming.

So what happens next? After the awards, I sat down with four veteran developers who are also members of Bafta’s video game committee, which oversees the organisation’s gaming commitments: Harvey Elliott was a studio head at Electronic Arts before leaving to become MD of middleware specialist, Marmalde; Paulina Bozek, once the executive producer of Sony’s SingStar series, now runs social games studio Inensu; Georg Backer is with Jonathan Ross’s Hotsauce Interactive, after several years at Lionhead; and Andy Payne is MD of Mastertronic and chairman of industry trade body, UKIE.

I got them all together to discuss the state of the industry and the future of games. Here’s what they had to say – with the 15 key points highlighted…

Let’s look back at the Bafta video game awards briefly. Indie games did really well, with Journey, Unfinished Swan and The Room all winning in their categories. What does that say about the industry?

Harvey Elliott: I was really pleased just to see so many indies nominated and fighting across the board with the big guys, and then to see so many of those indies win – deservedly so. It was a really positive award ceremony. I think the Bafta committee is much more representative of the industry as a whole now. It means we can champion new things better than we’ve been able to in the past.

Andy Payne: I think it really reflects the industry. I feel that the tipping point is here, things are changing. It showed that [1] you can spend as much money as you want or as little as you can afford, and you can make great games. I mean, to see New Star Soccer going up against Fifa, and winning! That was a legendary moment for me. A lot of the developers I spoke to that night were saying, ‘I’m inspired now, I want to win!’ I’ve never seen that before.

Georg Backer: The important thing is, all the games deserved to be there – it wasn’t just a case of having to represent the indie community.

AP: And so many of the entries this year weren’t shooting games! Most video game awards are all about shooting games. But that’s not what games are about.

Paulina Bozek: I was really interested to see the Game Developers Conference survey, which came out a few days before the Bafta awards. It’s the biggest industry meeting we have, and more than half of the attendees are targeting mobile platforms, which lend themselves well to indie developers. So the awards were really in-step with what’s happening.

But even beyond the indie titles, it was good to see some slightly more interesting Triple A titles doing well…

AP: Yes, Dishonored winning best game. A new franchise and an amazing title.

It’s very encouraging – we’re heading into a new console generation and usually at this point we’re talking about visuals and processing power. But it seems that the games people are playing and discussing are just as likely to be New Star Soccer or Journey…

HE: It shows people care about gameplay. I mean, I don’t sit looking at good mainstream titles like Far Cry 3 thinking, ‘oh that’s not quite good enough, if only we had a little bit more processing power’. I don’t think what we’re desperate for right now is a surge of new technology, what we need is phenomenal gameplay and phenomenal experiences.

AP: The whole sense of iteration has changed. There are new tablets coming out all the time – we’re not waiting years for new technologies now. That’s going to be an interesting challenge for the console makers.

GB: Ease of development is so important too. You have access to digital distribution but you also have tools that enable you to make games fairly easily – or at least to overcome the technology barrier. Your creative mind is the limit. Look at the Dare to Be Digital winners; look at The Room – that’s by a bunch of guys that started as outsourcers. They had one coder! [2] So that’s it now – with the right tools anyone can build something amazing.

So it’s about ideas, but you can’t deny it’s also about the availability of new platforms. Without tablets, The Room wouldn’t have been possible…

PB: Sure, these are platforms that people really enjoy playing on. It’s a really visceral experience playing The Room on iPad. At the same time, those devices are totally open so they allow for experimentation, they allow for small studios, they allow for iteration and trying things out. You have literally millions of chances, as a gamer, to find something incredible, that may be on its sixth or seventh iteration. That’s missing from the consoles. But I think in the next generation, that will be the direction they go in – it’s not so much a technological leap, it will be about opening up access and making things more flexible; to give people the freedom to create in an environment that’s currently quite closed and difficult.

That definitely seems to be what Sony was trying to say at the PS4 launch – the hardware and infrastructure seem to be designed to allow more experimentation…

PB: I think it would be amazing if the consoles got to the stage where, if you have a big IP that’s on its fifth sequel or something, and they’re flogging the same thing over and over, [3] imagine if they opened those big franchises up to third-parties who could then create extensions that take the series in new directions. I think about it from the social and family games angle – a lot of those games have reached their pinnacle, but there’s so much more experimentation and innovation left if you could open up those systems, to allow developers to create their own expansions and extensions. It would be super interesting.

HE: That’s the world that Gabe Newell has been exploring at Valve. Look at Half-Life and the tech they created. They opened that up and Portal came from that, Counter Strike came from that. It’s exactly the industry we need. [4] For the consoles to survive, they absolutely have to be open marketplaces, where anyone can put their content out. Of course there’s still room for big publishers to put out phenomenal Triple A content, but anything should be possible. I have a lot of respect for what Valve has achieved with Steam – consoles need to be right in the heart of that space too, to be competitive.

So is there a possible future model where publishers cede out sequels, or at least spin-offs, to indies? I mean, would Dead Space 3 have been better if they’d have given it to, I don’t know, Parsac productions or Jasper Byrne, who made Lone Survivor?

GB: I actually think there have been some really good sequels over the last year: Far Cry 3, the new Hitman title… But I think there’s a realisation that’s come out of the indie scene – that what players focus on is gameplay. You can’t just do a blockbuster anymore. A while back you’d play the games that were given to you by the big publishers – they owned the playing field. But over the last two years the exposure of indie games has made those publishers realise that sequels have to be really, really good.

And the big publishers are taking notice of indie now – Minecraft has shown there’s an enormous business there.

PB: In some ways, as an indie, you have less space to get it wrong, you can’t afford to have major flaws in there, especially if you’re a new studio working on a new idea that doesn’t have a huge marketing push behind it. You just have to be great. There’s passion as an indie, there’s an intense work ethic – you have nothing to help you out. You have to just do it.

AP: Fan-generated content is becoming much more important. And feedback is everything. [5] The relationship between creator and consumer is everything – it’s a fascinating time. We’re just at the beginning of this. As gamers, we’ve always played what we’ve been served. We’d wait, we were served, we’d play. Now that has stopped. You get the game and sometimes it changes within a day because of feedback, especially on the mobile devices. This is a much more democratic approach and I think that’s going to change the way business is done. [6] All this working on a game for two years, NDA’ed up to your eyes, bored out of your brain… nobody want’s that, the creators certainly don’t. It’s too much, it burns people out. And then they get their game out into the world and the world just shrugs its shoulders. The creators end up saying, ‘well, why did we bother?’ Well, get the game our earlier! See what’s going in the community.

PB: Whether you’re an indie or a big studio, making a hit and getting a game out there among consumers takes time, it really does take time. There are less instant successes now. [7] You may need 12 months of iteration to get that sweet spot, to get the mechanics right and get the audience involved. For indies that’s difficult because you have to sustain yourself – even if the revenue’s not there you have to keep refining…

Well, of course, Minecraft turned that into a business model, charging for the alpha and then inviting the community to become paying QA testers!

HE: Those trends are happening all over the place, whether it’s Minecraft or the Kickstarter approach to development, people are signing up as fans to something and saying, yes, I want to see what this team can create. And there’s the free-to-play model where people can get something, try it and then decide, yeah, I believe in this and I’ll invest in it. It’s so much nicer as a consumer of games to be able to experience them in so many different ways, whether that’s paying upfront, or investing in something you’ve had the chance to influence, or you pay for something very small and chose to pay more as you go along. All of these models support the indie community and as long as the platforms continue to support the indie community the industry will absolutely thrive. The blockbusters will still have their chance as well.

So what can Sony and Microsoft learn from the current industry – and how can this be applied to their forthcoming machines?

AP: Both Xbox and PlayStation are massive brands – millions of people know what they are. The challenge is to develop an ecosystem that supports all sorts of games – that’s about connectivity, it’s also about being smart.

HE: As Andy said earlier, there is new hardware going out all the time now, in the form of smartphones and tablets. These are forcing the market to move on, they have amazing connectivity, you have digital downloads, instant play, immediate ways to get into games… They also have a social media layer sitting in the background: most games let you post to Twitter, post to Facebook, create a social connection. Microsoft did well at this with the gamer score and achievements, and Sony had a go too. I feel like those are the areas they need to be looking at. [8] The ecosystem is important, but also it’s that social setting where people can talk about the games, get involved with the games, have feedback to developers… as long as the platforms support that they will thrive. They could lose their market by ignoring the smartphones and tablets.

It seems that the console manufacturers are increasingly interested in indie gaming, but they still haven’t made it that easy to get on their platforms.

GB: But indie games are there – this is really the first console generation that this has happened. It will be interesting to see what happens with those big next-gen machines – will there be indie launch titles? You need to open up and let people in early. You need to get that momentum at launch.

PB: On the game level, [9] one of the things that’s really come through this year about the console manufacturers is the ability to spot something special – like Journey or Unfinished Swan. Both of those came from schools, they came through the experimental route. Sony spotted them, gave them a big platform and it really worked out. That’s something platform holders can do really well – elevating something to a new level. In terms of opening it up to developers, it’s two-fold. It’s the infrastructure and architectural makeup of the system, which Sony seems to have committed to making easier. But currently there are also a lot of administrative processes to publishing on console, even on PSN which is supposed to be for light, snack-sized games. You still have to go through the traditional routes. These just need to be re-jigged – it’s not like you to build the whole system again from scratch.

AP: You have to let the thing live a bit. They still have this need to control. And this whole idea of exclusive games – the younger generation just do not understand why you can’t play Halo on your PlayStation or Uncharted on your Xbox. It’s a ridiculous system – it needs to go away.

HE: There’s been a big change. Over the last two hardware iterations, 80% of the games market was console. That’s where you had to be if you wanted visibility. But now, Steam has re-ignited the PC gaming sector, Apple and Android have created a new indie market… consoles will have to embrace this new era; if they don’t, games will still exist without them. Consumers nowadays have more than one device – they may own a console, but they’ll also carry a smartphone or a tablet, they have lots of ways to access content – and they’re less fussy. Walking Dead is the same experience whether you’re playing it on a high-spec PC or an iPhone.

PB: I love the Walking Dead on an iPad – not just for the touch interface, but because it can go anywhere with you. I mean, imagine being a 12 year-old camping out in the backyard and playing this! It would be so frightening, but so cool! The overall experience exists beyond the graphics.

AP: The console manufactures, I think, have realised that they’re not the only game in town anymore. I mean, there used to be these battles between Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft and developers were in the middle of it. But now you can zoom out, Star Wars-style, and there’s a whole galaxy beyond them: Apple, Google, Samsung… They’re all interested in content and they put the console companies into perspective. The console in isolation, won’t work.

HE: I remember when the Super Nintendo launched in the UK – it had three games. Three games! And then you’re waiting for months for something else to happen.

And that’s exactly what they’ve done with Wii U!

GB: I think [10] the attention span of gamers has reduced dramatically. I used to know the release schedule for two years ahead! I don’t know what’s coming out in two weeks anymore! I don’t need to have that attention span anymore. There’s so much great stuff happening, on every platform. And I love the fact that with Steam, when I’ve bought a game, I can download it on PC and then I can download it on my Mac, it doesn’t matter. How awesome is that?

HE: And it’s the ecosystem as well, it’s the whole scale from the indie guys to the big blockbusters.

Are we really heading toward an era of digital only games?

HE: I don’t know, but my kids don’t care if they have the box or not!

PB: And where are you going to buy these non-digital games anyway?

I guess it’s Amazon or a supermarket now for a lot of people…

GB: But then my broadband at home is rubbish. Sometimes I miss being able to just run out and buy a game at the local shop. And people do still like special editions…

HE: Ultimately it’s not the delivery platform that matters, it’s the gameplay experience.

AP: My company almost went bust because of console publishing. Not because the games didn’t sell, but because it cost a load of money to manufacture the physicals stock. And then you’re feeding that into a retail market where you’re not paid until the product is sold. The shops are not taking any risk. If you’re a small developer you have to go cap in hand to the console manufacturer and then to Walmart, Bestbuy and Game, none of which take on any risk. That’s why you had sequel after sequel after sequel. It’s a spreadsheet game and it just got tiring for everyone.

HE: And if you’re on console you’re paying the fee for the discs to be printed.

AP: And then if you want your game to be seen on the shelves you have to put out more than one copy per store – you need multiple copies and you have to start buying space. I mean, the game shops have been selling space rather than games for bloody years – and they wonder why suddenly we don’t want that stuff anymore. With digital it means you put your investment and your time upfront and then you can release it – if it doesn’t sell, it might be a disaster, but you don’t have the follow-on disaster of unsold stock. The issue that’s coming through now is, what should games be priced at? What is the true price that people are prepared to pay? Because there are no physical goods, it means there’s more flexibility. [11] If you have a Steam sale over one weekend, you can pay for your company for three months – that’s with a game you haven’t touched for a while, an older title that’s just hanging around.

PB: The big challenge is still discoverability. Instead of the problem of retail, now you’ve got thousands and thousands of games. [12] You have to build a fanbase and as a developer you spend as much time thinking about that as you do working on the actual game.

GB: Community building is essential.

AP: You know, the retailers are looking around trying to find something to do, how about showcasing the people who make the games? What about being a real showroom for games, rather than a place where you go and buy stuff?

HE: When you’re thinking of buying a game, it’s the community opinion that matters. [12] If you had retail supporting that channel, saying, ‘here’s who made the game, here’s what the community thinks of it, here’s a recommendation you can trust and buy into’, then they’ve got a place…

What we seem to be seeing from the successful independent book retailers is that the future of high street retail is about aggregation and personal service…

HE: I get that experience from Waterstones. You go in to the store and I feel like they’ve read the books – they give you recommendations, they give you guidance, I like the way that works. I don’t know how their model is sustainable because they carry bucket loads of stock, but the model has to be more than ‘this is a place where you go and collect something’, because if it’s just that, you can go to Tesco.

Digital has also brought in a new type of game experience – things like Journey and The Room that you can finish in three hours. Well, that’s okay now because there’s a pricing model that can support that.

AP: In shops you’ve just got a couple of price bands. I mean, we’ve had no end of discussions… before World of Goo became this huge sensation, I cut a deal to put it in a box. Could I get a retailer to take it? They’d never heard of it. I said, look I reckon this game should be about six pounds. They’d say ten. I’d say, well no, I think six. So then they’d say, ‘okay, five’. So we’d go with that, but they’re not making enough money and neither are we. But in digital, you can set your own price and see what the market does. You can take your chances.

PB: The Holy Grail is trying to talk to both casual and hardcore audiences. Games like The Room and Journey do that. They still offer deep experiences. [13] We’re no longer looking at non-hardcore as shallow. It doesn’t have to be shallow and throwaway, it just means accessible. It’s great that we’ve got to that point.

GB: I actually think video game marketing has moved on. It used to be about how many levels there were and how many weapons, but now it’s more about the experience you’ll get. It’s more like cinema advertising now.

But there seems to be a fascinating neurosis in game design now. Titles like Tomb Raider and Far Cry 3 are constantly offering the player side-quests and mini-quests: do that, try this, do you want to go down a tomb? Here you go! Do you want to race a quad-bike for a bit? Be our guest, here it is… They seem to be paranoid that if you’re given a few seconds to think, you’ll get bored and play an iPhone game.

HE: That’s because you will! Five years ago, gamers bought five titles a year, that’s it. The tie ratios on PlayStation 2 were like three or four to one. Now, gamers own hundreds of games, they’ve got them on their phones, on Facebook… The big games are afraid that if they don’t continually remind you of all the brilliant things you haven’t yet done, you’ll lose interest.

GB: I do play Angry Birds when a console game is loading! [14] But on mobile, a lot of games remind you if you haven’t done anything for a while; they’ll message you – come back and I’ll give you something. That’s something that maybe the next generation of consoles should think about. How can we engage with players while they’re not playing?

HE: But back to this question of physical goods and whether or not there’s a space for them. I think there is, because with digital, bandwidth is a problem and storage is a problem: unless your download speed is huge and your hard drive is massive, you WILL need physical space. Steam is great – you can reload titles back on to your system, but bandwidth is finite. I know I can re-install all my games onto iPad, but it is constantly full. So that’s where physical product will always have room, especially if it’s Blu-ray size with a ton of storage space.

The interesting thing with PlayStation 4 that very few people picked up on, was this sense of instant access – Sony bought Gaikai so that people could choose a digital game and start playing it immediately. They want to banish load times for updates and patches. Sony wants PS4 to work like TV with each game acting like a different immediately available channel.

PB: That’s an interesting thought – that PS4 wants to be more like a media company with games as channels. At the same time we have media companies who are trying to become more like games. TV viewership is dying and the way you watch TV… to watch a channel that is mass broadcast is just so alien a lot of time. Everything is personalised. But then to think of games companies as media companies streaming game channels – that changes everything. That’s so interesting.

HE: It’s fascinating to watch all these different industries, all these different media converging into social connected experiences…

GB: The thing is, it is just another form of entertainment now. There are people in my family who are better at Angry Birds than me, but if I say, ‘you’re a gamer’, they deny it. It’s entertainment…

And everyone wants to capture those people! Everyone wants to be their single source of entertainment – whatever it is.

AP: Look, I have capped broadband, and someone asked earlier why I put up with that. Well, it’s because I’ve always had the same broadband supplier. It’s like bank accounts – we rarely change them. So you have big players like Virgin and Sky battling to get you as a customer because they know, once they have you, you’re unlikely to go anywhere else. Those guys are desperate to ensure they’re The One. And the TV guys like Sharp and Samsung are saying, no, we’re The One, because we have the screen! Everyone wants to be The One. And you can only have one The One! You see companies like Microsoft trying to do everything…

PB: Well, [15] if you want to be The One you need to be a software platform, not a hardware platform. A lot of the companies trying to be The One have a physical interest, whether that’s a pipeline or whatever – that’s a lot harder to iterate or change. It will be easier to be The One with software. Although we haven’t talked about Ouya or Gamestick at all – they have a role to play, but it’s a little way off…

HE: So to answer you’re question from the beginning, it’s a very exciting time to be in the industry!(source:guardian)