作者：Dan “Shoe” Hsu

最近我在Twitter/Facebook上诉苦称，自己不得不为读者精简上万字的访谈稿，只为方便他们阅读。但如果他们知晓本次采访对象是谁，便会明确回复：不要删减任何内容。

事实是，人们希望知晓Cliff Bleszinski的每字每句。当然，这个傲慢且直言不讳的37岁开发者的极端性格足以保证他能获得如此之高的关注度。你可能眼红他娶了个芭比娃娃般的漂亮妻子，或是价格超过大部分人年薪的兰博基尼改装车。然而，你人生中或许有大把时间都沉浸在《虚幻竞技场》与《战争机器》这些游戏中，而它们均出自Cliff Bleszinski之手。

然而此时的Bleszinski并没有创作任何游戏。最近他离开自己效力20多年的雇主Epic Games，没错，打17岁起他便受雇于这家公司，直到2012年10月。毫无疑问，他还有其它打算。今天他与我们分享了其过去的职业生涯与个人性格，以及他对《战争机器》优劣势等看法。

Cliff-Bleszinski(from vglounge.com)

你曾在G4大会上提到，希望人们不要以《战争机器》中Lancer的电锯枪定位你的职业。但从某种程度上看，这难道不好吗？鲜少有开发者能够拥有此类游戏文化形象标签。

没错。我最近一两年总拿电锯枪摆拍照片，但这并没有什么坏处。[笑]那儿出现一张标志性相片，其中的人物恰恰是你。这是种不错的感觉，但有时，你只希望做些其它不同事情。

人们忘了我曾制作出含有一只兔子的多彩平台游戏，而且我还制作出仅含粘性手枪的一款彩色照明射击游戏。这得归结于10年规律。每隔10年，旧事物就会转变为新趋势。喜爱《Twilight》与《True Blood》的孩子并不知道Buffy。每隔10年，你可以向一群17岁孩子重新介绍某个旧创意，可能在其问世时他们仅有7岁，还未体验过这款作品。

这便是游戏机制的真理，对吗？我的妻子是在玩《反恐精英》过程中首次了解“双连杀”，因为她还没有玩过原创《虚幻竞技场》（游戏邦注：《Unreal Tournament》，以下简称《UT》）。当她玩《UT 2004》时，她认为该作效仿《反恐精英》模式。其实它们属于同种游戏。

你还记得当Alien Ant Farm重新制作《Smooth Criminal》时，用户的反应吗？有些人表示：“哦，我爱这首歌！我喜爱Alien Ant Farm！”而有些人会说：“不，这是Michael Jackson的歌曲。”现在我们处在谷歌时代，无知是不可原谅的事实。你可以通过网站不断扩充知识面。你几乎可以查阅到所有信息。

如果不是电锯枪，那你希望人们在看到你的名字或本人后有何联想？

曾有篇Kotaku文章写道，我在职业生涯中做得最棒的一件事便是获得曝光。我从不掩饰自己的所作所为，我乐意与别人交流，接受各种采访。我希望有个游戏行业外的人士能够看到我过去20年的成就，以及我接下来致力的目标，然后写道：“有个家伙十分自豪自己的事业与行业。他并没有干坐在桌子后面。他走出那里，传递着游戏文化。”而那至少具有某些意义。

你可以通过制作掩护射击游戏与电锯枪打造自己的影响力。但我希望人们是因我制作过出色作品，乐意分享成果而认识我，关注我。我涉入游戏业务是基于三个原因：制作杰出作品，受到关注，当然还有获利，因为我也确实喜欢高级汽车。

也就是说，其实你的公众形象有时存在分歧。显然你已拥有大批粉丝与Twitter追随者。大量用户都喜爱你的作品。但与此同时，也有些人认为你有点爱出风头。如你所说，你四处分享游戏。开着高级汽车。而且，你还是带着“CliffB”绰号与无光泽发型度过这个时期。有些人并没有忘记这个景象。

现在回想起来，你的年龄已逐渐增加，那你有做哪些与众不同的事情吗？它们发挥作用了吗？

没有。显然我已为此奋斗多年。如果你有一个喧闹嘈杂的社区，此时有一个发型光鲜，戴着耳环，满口脏话的青少年进入……他会采取哪些举动？

幸好，我主要依赖过去成就发展，而与此同时我也认识到，同比坐在拐角明知自己强大的大型开发者，我只是不断嗷叫的小狗。我并非Valve Software创始人Gabe Newell。Gabe是个相当成功的杰出人才，但他有自己的做事原则。他十分固执，但也有点内向。没有人知道Gabe的奋斗目标。我想他是不会戴耳环的，虽然多年来我已没有这个嗜好。

每个人都有自己的目标。我一直希望有些年轻孩子能发现我手头事项的趣味性。比起“我想成为足球运动员或航天员”，我更希望他们说“有一天我想像他一样制作游戏”。这才是我追求的目标。

回想当初我在Electronic Gaming Monthly的《战争机器》报道中称呼你为“屌丝”时，你有何感想？

那时我只兴奋自己在EGM杂志上露脸。我是读着这本杂志长大的。现在我的抽屉里还留有一些旧刊。这就好像某个Judas Priest的忠实粉丝成为该乐队的主唱。或者……我不知道是否可以这样比喻。

我是这样开始接触游戏行业的，我一心想涉入该领域，然后才走到如今位置。甚至在EGM首次报道时，我们的《虚拟竞技场》正处于关键期。讽刺的是，大多数那时的期刊已经消失，但我家里还存有不少，因为它们印证着巨大事业里程碑，即使当时你称呼我为“屌丝”。

公平地讲，作为客观记者，在写这类文章，不该一见面就称呼“Cliff这个人！”比如Tom Bissell在纽约客杂志中曾这样写道：“哦，他可能是个模特或小城毒品贩子”。对此我会回答：“谢谢……我想？”其实解析某人的文章与错误报道只是一线之隔。记者应注意到这点。

你认为向年轻儿童推广《战争机器》的玩具合适吗？或者是种奇怪举措？

一直以来这都是个问题。事实上我已经37岁了，但我仍会收集全新精致的变形金刚。我并不是回避该问题。这些产品出自Toys R Us制造商之手，而且这是一场奇妙的科幻之旅。前几天，Toys R Us还推出普罗米修斯人形公仔。

重点是，你希望更多用户能够接触和了解你的游戏及其周边产品。我总在捍卫《战争机器》，因为同比帮派格斗游戏，该作是款独特的战斗外星人游戏。

我想起来了：我曾在之前采访中提到《战争机器》似乎具有两面性。它就像是一部动作电影预告片，但其中穿插的某些场景又能吸引非动作电影的粉丝……

我已经发现这点。我还看过《Lifetime》电影版本的广告和ESPN版本。

战争机器3(from onlinegames.cat)

没错。似乎《战争机器》就是这样，但这并不是明智的推广举措。一方面，你拥有“更大，更棒且更出众”的卖点，游戏中含有电锯枪与其它令人感到刺激的武器。

另一方面，这款游戏又有“Mad World”这种主题的广告，力图展现世界丧失的人道主义。《战争机器》系列中设置着Dominic故事，他与迷失妻子的团聚，以及他在《战争机器3》中的故事等。它们会触动人们心灵，但在我看来，这并不符合该系列的动作与暴力主题。

其中部分涉及节奏问题。如果在该作中场设置感人场面，你可能会大爆粗口，消灭50个蜥蜴人。那它是如何实现的？这适合吗？为何会这样？其实归根结底是开发团队付出的努力，当然还有我的一部分功劳。

当我还是青少年时，我已开发出《Jazz Jackrabbit》这类作品，基本上我会聆听两种类型的音乐：即重金属说唱与音乐剧。坦白讲这是遗传因子在作祟。我是双重人格，我可以听脏话堆积的说唱，也能够聆听感人肺腑的音乐。换言之，如果我从事某个项目，我不得不做出调整，因为并不是所有人都能同时擅长这两个领域。

一直以来我都是双重人格。这一分钟我想观看甜美浪漫的喜剧，下一分钟我又想看《电锯杀人狂前传》。两者都是我的最爱。我是黑白混血儿。因此我认为基因是造就我完成这款作品的部分原因。

顺便说下，Rod Fergusson（游戏邦注：《战争机器》前监制人）也是如此。他喜爱动作电影与爆炸品，同时是个音乐极客。他会在小酒店里啃一大块牛排，而后配上一杯苹果马提尼。我认为，正是因为这种情感，我和Rod最终才会开发出《战争机器》这款游戏。

它能不断完善吗？答案是肯定的。在我看来，应进一步完善其前后关卡中引入整个Maria事件的节奏。Dom的敏感性效应仍是个争议。场景方面也应进行修改。我认为最好设置超安静的初始关卡，而后逐渐加深紧迫感。最终形成围攻形式，此时的你已无路可退。作为玩家，你应意识到自己尚能勉强反击。我个人认为，Dom在此刻的最终牺牲会比切换到Maria画面更具效应。（本文为游戏邦/gamerboom.com编译，拒绝任何不保留版权的转载，如需转载请联系：游戏邦）

Life after Epic: Getting to know Cliff Bleszinski (exclusive interview, part one: his past)

by Dan “Shoe” Hsu

I recently complained on Twitter/Facebook that I had to trim a 10,000-word interview down to something a little more manageable for our readers. But once people learned who the interview subject was, the response was clear: Don’t cut any of it.

Turns out people want to hear what Cliff Bleszinski has to say. Every word. The brash and outspoken 37-year-old developer is certainly polarizing enough to warrant such attention. You might hate him for his pretty Barbie-doll wife and his hot-rod Lamborghini that costs more than most people’s annual salaries [update/correction: make that two Lamborghinis]. You’ve probably spent more than a few hours of your life, however, totally lost in games like Unreal Tournament and Gears of War. Games that he helped create.

But right this instant, Bleszinski isn’t creating anything. He recently left Epic Games, his employer for the last two decades — yes, he started there when he was 17 — back in October 2012. No doubt, he’s up to something (more on that in part two of our exclusive interview tomorrow — we didn’t cut much, don’t worry). For now, he’s content to talk to GamesBeat about his past career and persona, what went right and wrong with Gears of War, and kids these days.

Part two: Bleszinski’s present and future

Part three: Bleszinski’s thoughts on other games

GamesBeat: You mentioned on G4 that you didn’t want the Gears of War Lancer chainsaw gun to define your career. But in a way, hasn’t that helped? Very few developers get to have a gaming cultural icon attached to them.

Bleszinski: Yeah. It doesn’t hurt that I was mugging for photo ops for two or three years with the damned thing. [Laughs] There’s that one iconic photo that goes up there, and that becomes you. That’s fine and everything, but at some point you want to do something else and be something different.

People forget that I did a colorful platformer with a rabbit in it or that I did a colored-lighting shooter with goo guns in it. It’s the 10-year rule. Every 10 years, what’s old is new. The kids who love Twilight and True Blood, they don’t know that Buffy existed. Every 10 years, you can take an [old] idea and reintroduce it to a new group of 17-year-olds, kids who were seven when it first came out and never experienced it.

That’s true of game mechanics, right? My wife’s first learning of “double kill” was through a Counter-Strike mod on her server because she hadn’t played the original Unreal Tournament. When she played UT2004, she thought that UT had taken it from the Counter-Strike mod. It’s the same thing.

You remember when Alien Ant Farm remade “Smooth Criminal”? People were like, “Oh, I love this song! I love Alien Ant Farm!” And you’re like, “No, that was Michael Jackson.” Now that we’re in the era of Google, ignorance is inexcusable, by the way. You have the portal to infinite knowledge in your pocket at any time. You can look up almost anything.

Image (1) chainsaw-duel1.jpg for post 101613

GamesBeat: If not the chainsaw gun, then what do you want people to think of when they see your name or face?

Bleszinski: Geez. There was a Kotaku article where they said one of the best things I did for my career was be visible. I’ve never been shy about going out there, talking to people, and doing interviews. I hope that there’s somebody out there who saw what I did over the last 20 years and what I’m going to do next and says, “Here’s a guy who is proud of his work and proud of his industry. He doesn’t sit behind a desk. He goes out there, and he’s an evangelist for gaming as a cultural thing.” If that makes any sense.

You can make your impact by doing a cover shooter and creating chainsaw guns and all that, but being known as a person who makes great games and also isn’t afraid to evangelize them and be visible is kind of my whole mantra. I got into this business for three reasons: to make amazing products, to be visible doing it, and to get paid, of course, because I do like having a fancy car.

GamesBeat: Along those lines, you had this public persona that’s a little divisive at times. You obviously have your fans and Twitter followers. A lot of people love your games. Yet at the same time, there are some people who think you’re kind of a douche. Like you said, you put yourself out there. You drive a fancy car. You also went through this phase with the “CliffyB” nickname and the frosted hair. Some people haven’t forgotten about that.

Looking back now that you are older, are there some things you would’ve done differently? Or did it all work out for you?

Bleszinski: Oh no, I was clearly trying too hard for many years there, obviously. When you have a community that’s more the quiet Reddit type of crowd, and then you have this kid who comes in with flashy hair and earrings, talking shit … what is this guy doing?

Thankfully, I largely had the track record to back it up, but at the same time, I was clearly the small dog that was barking too much, as opposed to the big dog who sits in the corner and knows that he’s big. I’m not [Valve Software founder] Gabe [Newell]. Gabe’s an amazingly successful, brilliant guy, but Gabe has his own way of doing things. He’s opinionated, but he’s also kinda quiet. Nobody knows what Gabe drives. I don’t think Gabe has an earring — although I haven’t had one for years.

Each person has their own thing and what they represent. I always just wanted there to be some younger kid out there who looks up and sees how much fun I was having with what I was doing and says, “Hey, I want to make games like that someday,” as opposed to saying, “Hey, I want to be a football player or an astronaut.” That was what I wanted to go for.

GamesBeat: What was your reaction back in the day to me calling you a dick in the first line of my cover story for Gears of War in Electronic Gaming Monthly?

Bleszinski: I was just happy to be in EGM at that point. I grew up reading the fucking magazine. I still have some of my old issues in my drawers over here. It’s like the guy who became the lead singer in Judas Priest. He was a big fan, and then he became the singer. Or … I don’t know if it was Priest; I think it was. [Editor's note: It was.]

I approached this industry from the outside wanting to get in, and then I was able to rise to damn near the top. Even the first EGM cover we had for Unreal Tournament was a monumental career moment for me. The irony, of course, is that most of print is going away, but still, I have a lot of those framed in my house because they were huge career milestones even if you did call me a dick.

To be fair, writing that article as an objective journalist, you couldn’t come in and be like, “Cliff’s the man!” When Tom Bissell wrote that New Yorker article on me, he was like, “Oh, he could be a model or a small-town weed dealer.” I was like, “Thanks … I think?” There’s this fine line between a piece that tears somebody apart and a piece that’s just a fluff piece. That’s the line that a journalist walks.

GamesBeat: Do you think it’s weird or inappropriate that Gears of War toys are marketed to young children?

Bleszinski: Yeah, that’s always an issue. The thing is, I’m 37-years-old, and I’m still collecting cool new Transformers. That’s not a cop-out answer. The fact that they’re in Toys “R” Us … it’s one of those things. Yeah, it is there. But at the same time, it’s a fantasy, sci-fi experience. There are Prometheus action figures that I saw the other day at Toys “R” Us. Like, really?

The bottom line is that you want to get your game and your franchise in as many people’s hands as possible, when it’s appropriate. I’ve always defended Gears with the fact that it was an over-the-top chainsawing-aliens game, as opposed to a sticking-ice-picks-in-gang-members’-ears type of game.

GamesBeat: That reminds me: I’ve mentioned to you in previous interviews that I’ve always had this issue where Gears of War seems to have two personalities. It’s almost like when you see a trailer for an action movie, and they made sure to insert a scene that might appeal to the people who don’t like action movies –

Bleszinski: I’ve seen them do it. I’ve seen the Lifetime movie version of the commercial and then the ESPN version of it.

GamesBeat: Exactly. It seemed like Gears of War went through that but not just marketing-wise. On the one hand, you have the “bigger, better, and more badass” mantra. There’s the chainsaw guns and all the weapons blowing people up into bloody bits.

On the other hand, you had the “Mad World” commercial, trying to show the humanity that was lost in this world. You have the Dominic storyline, with him reuniting with his comatose wife in Gears 2 and what happened to him in Gears 3. It’s all touching, but for me, it just really didn’t fit the action and violent theme of the series in general.

Bleszinski: Part of that was just pacing. You’re going to have this incredibly emotional scene in the midst of an IP [intellectual property] where you say, “Shit, yeah!” and cut through 50 lizard men. How’s that going to work? Is it a square peg in a round hole? Yes. Why did that happen? Well, a lot of it is down to how the Ouija board of the development team panned out, but part of it is also my own imprint on how I operate and think.

When I was a teenager and I was working on games like Jazz Jackrabbit, I would listen to basically two types of music: hardcore gangsta rap and then musicals. It’s honestly that DNA coming through. I’m in two modes. I’m either in go-go-go-fuck-shit-up mode, or I’m in let’s-go-cry musical mode. Moving forward, if I’m working on something, I’ll have to adjust for the fact that not a lot of people can operate in those two spaces.

That’s the duality of who I’ve always been. One minute I want to watch something really sweet, a rom-com, and then the next minute I want to watch The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I can appreciate both. I’m not all black or white. So I think that might have been some of that DNA making it through all the way to the final product.

This is also, by the way, a sensibility that [former Gears of War executive producer] Rod Fergusson shares. Rod loves action movies and explosives, but he’s also a big musical geek. He’ll have a big porterhouse steak and then have an apple martini with it. It’s just that kind of sensibility that I think came through myself and Rod and ultimately into the franchise.

Could it have been done better? Absolutely. I think the pacing of the levels before and after, leading into the whole Maria thing, probably could have been handled a lot better. The Dom thing, in regards to sensitivity — you can debate whether it worked. I think the scene worked rather well. I think that’s a better example, where the level started off super quiet, and then it ramped up to get crazier and crazier. It ultimately built up to everybody attacking you, and your back is absolutely against the wall. You realize, as a player, that you can barely counter this. Dom finally making his sacrifice at that point, I think, worked better than the setup and the payoff to the Maria scene, personally.(source:venturebeat)